Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 117

Thread: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

  1. #31
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Nope, it was a different topic. And how can I be a truther when the documents are there for all to see, in black and white, written by the very people who seceeded? It was about slavery, no matter what other alternate explantion you want to shovel at the rest of us.
    Yeah, there's docs to see that Obama isn't an American citizen and Bush orchestrated 9/11. I bet you believe that Bush had explosive paint applied to the walls of the WTC prior to the attacks, too, huh? You prolly have Obama's real birth certificate at your crib and it has, "Kenya", cearly stamped on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #32
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:43 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,590

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The articles of seccesion don't speak for, even a fraction, of the people who took up arms for the Confederacy. Just like most U.S. soldiers didn't believe we were fighting for oil in Desert Storm and even fewer U.S. soldiers didn't believe that Saddam was involved with the 9/11 attacks.

    You're nothing but another version of a trufer, taking part of the picture and turning it into the big picture; nevermind that the Longstreet, in 1863, contemplated that the slaves should have been freed, then Fort Sumter fired upon, or that in 1864 Pat Cleburne--a division commander in the Army of Tennessee--and 13 of his officers signed a letter to Jeff Davis, pushing for slaves to be offered freedom, in exchange for military service, or that the Confederate Army was the first American army to segregate--100 years before the United States army did so.

    Believe what you want, brother; but it just ain't so.

    BTW, didn't you already post this thread?????? Why are we reliving this??
    You're conflating different issues.

    I said most of the articles secession cited slavery, and indeed, they did; it was forefront issue FOR secession.

    I don't give a rat's ass what was in the mind of an ordinary soldier; he didn't make the decisions which put him in the fight.

    I also didn't say a thing about what the Civil War was fought over; that was about preservation of the Union. That's an entirely different topic from why the southern states seceded.

    And they seceded to preserve slavery. They said so themselves.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  3. #33
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're conflating different issues.

    I said most of the articles secession cited slavery, and indeed, they did; it was forefront issue FOR secession.

    I don't give a rat's ass what was in the mind of an ordinary soldier; he didn't make the decisions which put him in the fight.

    I also didn't say a thing about what the Civil War was fought over; that was about preservation of the Union. That's an entirely different topic from why the southern states seceded.

    And they seceded to preserve slavery. They said so themselves.
    Your argument supports every single bull**** argument, as to why American soldiers have gone to war for the past 235 years. If you believe this argument, then you believe all of those.

    You and Dan are victims of political correctness vice historical fact. What's next? You're going to argue that American troops supported the drug trade in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War?

    You're not looking at the big picture, brother.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #34
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,756

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, there's docs to see that Obama isn't an American citizen and Bush orchestrated 9/11. I bet you believe that Bush had explosive paint applied to the walls of the WTC prior to the attacks, too, huh? You prolly have Obama's real birth certificate at your crib and it has, "Kenya", cearly stamped on it.
    Nice try.

    1) I have seen Obama's birth certificate on the internet, and I agree that it is real. Obama was born in Hawaii, and is legally eligible to be president.

    2) No, I don't believe that Bush orchestrated 911. There is absolutely no credible evidence.

    3) However, slavery as the reason for the civil war is a public record that can be seen by anyone who cares to look. Not a single historian or archivist denies the authenticity of those documents. Slavery is exactly what the South fought for. And slavery is the reason in actually many public records from many documents. You can see for yourself by looking at the Misissippi Articles of Secession, the Georgia Articles of Secession, the South Carolina Articles of Seccession, the Texas Articles of Secession, and the Articles of Secession for the Conferate States of America, in which all heads of state for the states that immediately joined the Confederacy signed. It is there, in black and white, and they all give slavery as the primary reason.

    Right now, I almost feel like King Arthur in Monty Python's Holy Grail Movie, who has cut off both arms and legs of the Black Knight, but the Black Knight is still claiming to be the victor. LOL.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkt...layer_embedded
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  5. #35
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:43 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,590

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Your argument supports every single bull**** argument, as to why American soldiers have gone to war for the past 235 years. If you believe this argument, then you believe all of those.

    You and Dan are victims of political correctness vice historical fact. What's next? You're going to argue that American troops supported the drug trade in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War?

    You're not looking at the big picture, brother.
    This is vapid.

    The governments under which these soldiers served said they were separating themselves from the Union to preserve slavery. They, the governments, said so.

    The US government said nothing about oil in Iraq, nothing about the drug trade in Vietnam, nothing, zip, nada. It wasn't their mission. Never was.

    But preserving slavery was cited as a reason for separating from the Union. Officially, unquestionably, in writing. To DENY it is bull****.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  6. #36
    Filmmaker Lawyer Patriot
    Harshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:43 PM
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    29,590

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    What's more, what does citing what the southern states seceded for have to do with "bull****" reasons American soldiers were said to have done things? You imply I'm being disrespectful to American soldiers by saying so.

    Funny, but my loyalty and allegiance is in fact to the UNITED States of America, not the rebellious and rightly-defeated CONFEDERATE States of America. What I say about the reasons for secession has no reflection whatsoever on what I believe or "would" believe about the missions of American troops. I owe no loyalty or respect to the seceding states, AT ALL.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

  7. #37
    Slayer of the DP Newsbot
    danarhea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    39,756

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    This is vapid.

    The governments under which these soldiers served said they were separating themselves from the Union to preserve slavery. They, the governments, said so.

    The US government said nothing about oil in Iraq, nothing about the drug trade in Vietnam, nothing, zip, nada. It wasn't their mission. Never was.

    But preserving slavery was cited as a reason for separating from the Union. Officially, unquestionably, in writing. To DENY it is bull****.
    Harshaw-> <-apdst

    Last edited by danarhea; 12-21-10 at 01:56 AM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

  8. #38
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,935

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Actually, those who know little about the Civil War, think that the war was all about slavery.

    Care to show us any primary source docs that point to slavery being the reason that southern soldiers fought in the Confederate Army? I'm betting, no.


    Declaration of Causes of Secession

    These are official statements of why the states seceded. They were issued by the legitimate representatives of the people of those states. They are the best primary sources you or anyone could find.

    The individual motivations of individual soldiers in each unique situation is impossible for you or me or anyone to determine 150 years later and would vary greatly from person to person. As such, it is irrelevant to the question of why the South went to war or seceded.
    Last edited by haymarket; 12-21-10 at 08:55 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #39
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,184

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    The secession declarations don't remotely tell the whole story. There were decades of conflicts over trade issues leading up to the Civil War. The Congress was dominated by the New England states, and wanted to force the Southern states to adhere to trade laws that would have decimated the Southern economy, for the benefit of Northern factory and shipping fat-cats. This lead to the Nullification crisis, and the dispute over whether the Fedgov or the States would be supreme in matters of law.

    Was slavery a factor? Yes. Was it the only factor? No, not nearly. Was it the main issue? Highly debateable.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  10. #40
    Familiaist


    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    North Carolina
    Last Seen
    11-16-16 @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    7,470

    Re: 150 years later, S. Carolina celebration sparks new Civil War

    Slavery was the focal point for the civil war. As a Southern, I don't understand why people try to subvert the obvious. The Union does not hold morally superior ground when it comes to the treatment of African-Americans, as they were treated terribly in the industrial north. The institution of slavery was barbaric, backwards, and unholy.

    But I do not think that is why every enlisted soldier fought. I do not think every enlisted Northern soldier fought against slavery. I think the behind the scene puppet masters (e.g. the landed aristocracy in the South and the Industry owners in the North) were fighting over slavery. Because slavery was the mode of production. It is all about controlling the South's industry.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

Page 4 of 12 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •