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Thread: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

  1. #121
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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I agree that its bad to assume that the leaks had any purpose except to satisfy Assange's ego.
    I don't have to assume anything of the sort. He has stated his intentions in the wikileaks about page. To assume anything else would be going against something which you already agreed is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I also agree that its bad to assume they have not and could not cause harm or death.
    I would agree to this, so long as you carried it to its natural conclusion of not assuming anything. IE that they even have caused harm or death.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, I am assuming the most likely. If you look at the tactics used by the enemy in Afghanistan, it is pretty clear they can and will target those who are identified as working with us over there.
    If we want to assume the most likely then the most likely event would be that the US protected that family because of the information that they had given them. So the moment that the information was released then the odds are that that family was removed from that location and helped to live somewhere else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with Assange is he considers the lives of those he put at risk less important than his little blog and pointless crusade.
    Interestingly enough most "crusades" as you call it often are more important than lives. Let me ask you...was the lives that were lost during the revolutionary war worth the freedom that was the basis of that war?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem with those defending him is that they support some one who has proven to be an enemy of their country.
    Or someone that is trying to help our country. It really depends on ones point of view. If one thinks that our government is keeping far too many secrets and is using that secrecy to do things that we are against then someone like Assaunge would not be considered an enemy.
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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If we want to assume the most likely then the most likely event would be that the US protected that family because of the information that they had given them. So the moment that the information was released then the odds are that that family was removed from that location and helped to live somewhere else.
    So all those are now no longer usable assets in country, which makes the war effort harder and probably more deaths as a result. So the uprooting of families, the increased risk to them, and the increased risk to US troops is all a direct responsibility of Assange. Tell me again why you defend his actions?

    Interestingly enough most "crusades" as you call it often are more important than lives. Let me ask you...was the lives that were lost during the revolutionary war worth the freedom that was the basis of that war?
    There is no comparison between the Revolutionary War, and Assange and his blog.

    Or someone that is trying to help our country. It really depends on ones point of view. If one thinks that our government is keeping far too many secrets and is using that secrecy to do things that we are against then someone like Assaunge would not be considered an enemy.
    He is doing nothing to stop the US from keeping too many secrets. He is putting US citizens at risk. He is, in no way, shape or form, trying to "help" our country.
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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So all those are now no longer usable assets in country, which makes the war effort harder and probably more deaths as a result. So the uprooting of families, the increased risk to them, and the increased risk to US troops is all a direct responsibility of Assange. Tell me again why you defend his actions?
    Because his idea is sound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is no comparison between the Revolutionary War, and Assange and his blog.
    Actually there is a comparison. Assaunge is fighting for transparency in governments so that the citizens can be informed of what thier government is doing so that they can stay free. The revolutionary war was about freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    He is doing nothing to stop the US from keeping too many secrets. He is putting US citizens at risk. He is, in no way, shape or form, trying to "help" our country.
    I could just as easily state that the US put the citizens at risk by going over there and fighting a war which was an unwinable war to begin with. Who is more implicit? The ones that started the war? Or the ones that might have put a few extra people at risk due to the war?
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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Because his idea is sound.
    The concept that confidential documents should be released with no oversite is not sound.

    Actually there is a comparison. Assaunge is fighting for transparency in governments so that the citizens can be informed of what thier government is doing so that they can stay free. The revolutionary war was about freedom.
    Two problems with this. First is that nothing Assange is doing has anything to do with changing how papers are classified. Second is that you are admitting they are different to say they are the same, which makes no sense.


    I could just as easily state that the US put the citizens at risk by going over there and fighting a war which was an unwinable war to begin with. Who is more implicit? The ones that started the war? Or the ones that might have put a few extra people at risk due to the war?
    Whether the war is winnable or not is a matter of opinion at this point. Neither of us can see the future. However, one is a direct attempt to make the US more secure, and one is a direct attempt to make the US less secure. I wonder which is better....
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress
    The concept that confidential documents should be released with no oversite is not sound.
    What do you mean by "oversight"?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The concept that confidential documents should be released with no oversite is not sound.
    As asked by Khayembii...what do you mean by "oversight"? So far as I can tell there is no oversight. Things seem to be classified "just because".

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Two problems with this. First is that nothing Assange is doing has anything to do with changing how papers are classified. Second is that you are admitting they are different to say they are the same, which makes no sense.
    Assaunge wants more transparency in governments. So yeah...I would have to say that what he is doing is about changing how papers are classified. Of course they are different. One is a war, the other is about transparency. But they are both about freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Whether the war is winnable or not is a matter of opinion at this point. Neither of us can see the future. However, one is a direct attempt to make the US more secure, and one is a direct attempt to make the US less secure. I wonder which is better....
    Don't need to be a fortune teller (or a stratigist) to know that war breeds hate. Especially towards the invader. So yeah, I can safely say that the War on Terror is a failed war. You don't fight terror with more terror. As for making the US less secure...There was nothing in those cables that was so important as to make or break any of our policies with any country.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    joke Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    As asked by Khayembii...what do you mean by "oversight"? So far as I can tell there is no oversight. Things seem to be classified "just because".

    I know that is not true. It may seem like that to you, but in my experience that is NOT the case.


    Assaunge wants more transparency in governments. So yeah...I would have to say that what he is doing is about changing how papers are classified. Of course they are different. One is a war, the other is about transparency. But they are both about freedom.
    Wrong again, his own stated goals are to damage relations with networks between countries, in an anti war agenda.

    Don't need to be a fortune teller (or a stratigist) to know that war breeds hate. Especially towards the invader. So yeah, I can safely say that the War on Terror is a failed war. You don't fight terror with more terror. As for making the US less secure...There was nothing in those cables that was so important as to make or break any of our policies with any country.
    And the trifecta of wrongness. Has what has happened caused countries to be more careful in what, and how they communicate with the US?


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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I know that is not true. It may seem like that to you, but in my experience that is NOT the case.
    Great! Since you say that you are more experienced then perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us as to what oversight there is when it comes to classifying documents. What government agency does this? Are they open about what policies they use to determine whether something should be classified or not? What are the procedures and criteria?


    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wrong again, his own stated goals are to damage relations with networks between countries, in an anti war agenda.
    Really?

    Publishing improves transparency, and this transparency creates a better society for all people. Better scrutiny leads to reduced corruption and stronger democracies in all society’s institutions, including government, corporations and other organisations. A healthy, vibrant and inquisitive journalistic media plays a vital role in achieving these goals. We are part of that media.
    Wikileaks about page

    Sure don't sound like it to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And the trifecta of wrongness. Has what has happened caused countries to be more careful in what, and how they communicate with the US?


    j-mac
    On a civilian level, nope. On a governmental level? No idea. I'm not privy to those types of discussions, much less all of them in order to see if there has been an effect. Are you?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #130
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    Re: Lawyers cry foul over leak of Julian Assange sex-case papers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Great! Since you say that you are more experienced then perhaps you can enlighten the rest of us as to what oversight there is when it comes to classifying documents. What government agency does this? Are they open about what policies they use to determine whether something should be classified or not? What are the procedures and criteria?
    Here is a good starting place: Classified information in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yes, there are procedures. Yes, it can be abused. Yes, it is still better than anarchy, which is all assholes like Assange offer.

    Really?



    Wikileaks about page

    Sure don't sound like it to me.
    You might read some of his interviews. he is something of a publicity hound, so you should be able to find them almost as easily as the procedure for classifying material. Maybe easier.

    On a civilian level, nope. On a governmental level? No idea. I'm not privy to those types of discussions, much less all of them in order to see if there has been an effect. Are you?
    Take a guess. I think it is not hard to guess the right answer in this case. It's not the end of the world, but it is damaging to the US.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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