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"Dream Act" immigration bill blocked in Senate

reefedjib said:
So you want our southern border to be controlled like the North Korean border? I am not interested in such a police state.
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The difference between the two should be obvious. Try not to be too disengenous please.
 
Redress said:
Costly would be one issue yes, but hardly the only issue. The longer the border, the harder it is by a large margin to control it. When you consider the Berlin Wall was ~100 miles long and still not 100 % effective, compare that now to just under 2000 miles.
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Fence, land mines, seismic monitors and camera's have come a long way from the days of the Berlin wall.
 
reefedjib said:
So you want our southern border to be controlled like the North Korean border? I am not interested in such a police state.
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There are illegal aliens with guns in my neighborhood. The Korean DMZ sounds a lot more peaceful than mi barrio. Besides, Koreans respect education and illegal Mexican aliens don't respect anything. Try living in my shoes.
 
Albert Di Salvo said:
Land mines would close the border. Think of the Korean DMZ. It works.
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1. Korean border is MUCH shorter...
2. The landmines are also supplemented by armed forces on both sides... on one side, actively working to keep its people from leaving the DPRK
 
ludahai said:
1. Korean border is MUCH shorter...
2. The landmines are also supplemented by armed forces on both sides... on one side, actively working to keep its people from leaving the DPRK
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No problem. America could pay the Mexicans to mine the border for us. The job would be done quickly and inexpensively.
 
Redress said:
"Dream Act" immigration bill blocked in Senate - Yahoo! News



This is one where I have to come down on the same side as republicans. I like the concept of DREAM, but I think, at least for now, it should be limited to military service as the route to access to citizenship.
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Obama is right. This was a defeat for common sense.

Since it isn't logistically possible to extricate illegals from the regional economies they plugged into (local governments won't consistently cooperate), not to mention the social and cultural connections they've made, most of the ones already here aren't going anywhere. That's why we gave in during the 80s, because we didn't have much of a choice. We're in the same situation now that we were then, because we didn't seal the border.

Putting aside whether or not we should seal the border, there's nothing to be done about the people we have here now without invoking some kind of martial law and causing a bunch of chaos. Since it is the case that they "have" to be part of our community, we might as well implement a process of meritocratic selection to determine which of them ought to be politically empowered members.
 
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ludahai said:
That was designed to keep people in, not keep people out...
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Those that defended the wall did so against one side of the wall...does it really make a difference which side of the wall they defend? Isn't there two sides to a wall?
 
chevydriver1123 said:
Why is this considered a bad thing?
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That depends on one's perspective and values. The end of America will bring both foreseeable and unknowable consequences. There will be some measure of chaos. Chaos brings both danger and opportunity.
 
ludahai said:
Walls to keep people out don't have much of a history of success...
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That really depends on how literal you wish to be.

There are an estimation of currently a half million illegals crossing into the US per year. That number could easily be cut by half at the very least with the building of a plain jane wall. Even more if we use today's technology. If we can even get it down to where only 100,000 come into the country illegally per year because of a wall then I would call that a success. Add to that of actually enforcing our laws we could cut it down even farther.

Edit to add: Cops don't have much of a history of keeping crime off the streets either...doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seriously folks, the only reason to not build a wall is to let more illegals into our country.

As Mrs. Ratchet says on Robots: Grow some Bolts!
 
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Kal'Stang said:
That really depends on how literal you wish to be.

There are an estimation of currently a half million illegals crossing into the US per year. That number could easily be cut by half at the very least with the building of a plain jane wall. Even more if we use today's technology. If we can even get it down to where only 100,000 come into the country illegally per year because of a wall then I would call that a success. Add to that of actually enforcing our laws we could cut it down even farther.

Edit to add: Cops don't have much of a history of keeping crime off the streets either...doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Seriously folks, the only reason to not build a wall is to let more illegals into our country.

As Mrs. Ratchet says on Robots: Grow some Bolts!
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We cannot afford it. Why do you fail to understand this simple fact? Do you have a disability?
 
reefedjib said:
We cannot afford it. Why do you fail to understand this simple fact? Do you have a disability?
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And yet we can afford 2 wars? One in which we never should have been in and the other which is a complete failure?

Edit: oh yeah, and a stimulus package that was a failure also?
 
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Kal'Stang said:
And yet we can afford 2 wars? One in which we never should have been in and the other which is a complete failure?

Edit: oh yeah, and a stimulus package that was a failure also?
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Yes.


.
 
I agree, and while the wall will do a decent job of keeping out illegals, let's bolster that defense by putting the National Guard on the US-Mexico border, too! Take that, illegals!!
 
Kal'Stang said:
If we can afford to do stuff that were failures and had no business doing then we can certainly afford a wall along the border for actual security.
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Iraq was not a failure and we certainly had business doing it.

You don't seem to have a clue as to what resources would be needed to build a wall. We shouldn't be creating that kind of police state anyway.
 
reefedjib said:
Iraq was not a failure and we certainly had business doing it.
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Where did I say that Iraq was a failure? Do you need to take a reading comprehension course? I was talking about two wars...one being a failure the other with us being there when we shouldn't have been.

reefedjib said:
You don't seem to have a clue as to what resources would be needed to build a wall. We shouldn't be creating that kind of police state anyway.
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lmao A hell of a lot less resources than what has been used in two wars you can be sure of that.

As for it being a police state...How? Last I knew I never advocated that citizens or legals have to stay behind that wall. Just illegals. Or are you now trying to say that we have no right to defend our own borders from incursions?
 
One other benefit to building a wall would be the fact that it would put a serious dent in the amount of illegal drugs and people traffic that is so prevalent along our borders. 2 birds with one stone...this is sounding better to me all the time.
 
Kal'Stang said:
lmao A hell of a lot less resources than what has been used in two wars you can be sure of that.
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You are delusional. 2000 miles of border? Forget about it.

As for it being a police state...How? Last I knew I never advocated that citizens or legals have to stay behind that wall. Just illegals. Or are you now trying to say that we have no right to defend our own borders from incursions?
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Military incursions, of course. Don't need a wall for that. Immigration is a different story. Better to make it unattractive to come here illegally. A wall is a ridiculously stupid and inane idea.
 
Kal'Stang said:
One other benefit to building a wall would be the fact that it would put a serious dent in the amount of illegal drugs and people traffic that is so prevalent along our borders. 2 birds with one stone...this is sounding better to me all the time.
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Better to legalize them and eliminate the revenue stream for cartels and smugglers.
 
reefedjib said:
You are delusional. 2000 miles of border? Forget about it.
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Are you really trying to say that 2 wars over the course of 10 years would equal less resources used than a 2000 mile wall? Are you serious?

reefedjib said:
Military incursions, of course. Don't need a wall for that. Immigration is a different story. Better to make it unattractive to come here illegally. A wall is a ridiculously stupid and inane idea.
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In your opinion. An opinion which has yet to stand up to my arguement.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Are you really trying to say that 2 wars over the course of 10 years would equal less resources used than a 2000 mile wall? Are you serious?



In your opinion. An opinion which has yet to stand up to my arguement.
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In your dreams
 
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