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Thread: DADT cloture passes

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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I don't agree that the ban on membership in extremist orgs should be lifted, just for the record.

    However, my faith in our service membes has been questioned and this is far from the first time.

    I'm throwing out a challenge to see how much faith the abolitionists have in our troops.

    I guess no one wants to take the challenge and give an honest answer.
    I don't have faith in members of the KKK. Do you?
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Gay guys have been showering with straight guys and other gay guys since high school or possibly earlier. And vice versa. Gay girls have been showering with straight girls and gay girls since high school or possibly earlier, and vice versa. Guys and girls, men and women do not normally shower together unvoluntarily, in the US. It is not because of the sexuality or presumed sexuality that these groups do not shower together. It is because of our modest and Puritan-influenced culture.

    If there were nudists in the military, they could most likely shower with either sex and have no issues because most actual nudists do not view the naked human body as a sexual object normally. It is our issues (modesty) with what the majority of the US associates the human body with that makes us equate naked opposite sex body almost every time with sex. Men and women have been taught that it is not right for a man to see a woman that he is not intimate with naked, nor is it right for a woman to see a man that she is not intimate with naked. We have essentially been taught that the naked human body is a sexual object most of our lives, as heterosexuals.

    But, for gay people, they wouldn't really be getting the same message. We don't teach our children that it is wrong for people of the same sex to see us naked, not for those of the same sex in a person's peer group. In fact, we normally force every school age child/teen to shower together with members of their same sex whenever they participate in group sports. Nothing sexual is seen about men or women showering together, normally. Since there is no assumed intimacy, then the message is that a man in front of a man naked is not sexual, normally, just like a woman in front of a woman naked is not sexual, normally.
    Do you have any idea of the difference between a girls' shower and boys' shower in high school? It doesn't appear so.
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Do you have any idea of the difference between a girls' shower and boys' shower in high school? It doesn't appear so.
    She does. However, it's readily apparent by your disagreement that you do not.

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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    She does. However, it's readily apparent by your disagreement that you do not.
    Please, go get a clue before you open up.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Please, go get a clue before you open up.
    In other words, you are unable to justify, explain, or debate the position you just offered up. Next time, you'll probably want to actually research a position and make a coherent argument rather than simply trolling.

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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Moderator's Warning:
    DADT cloture passesYou two knock it off.
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Do you have any idea of the difference between a girls' shower and boys' shower in high school? It doesn't appear so.
    Then you need to explain exactly how I am wrong. Last time I looked, girls shower with girls and boys shower with boys in high school. It really doesn't matter what their sexuality is. It matters what their physical body says their gender is (although, granted, this is changing a little in some places with the more open acceptance of transgender people/kids, but that is a different issue and is not the normal).

    So, tell me how exactly a boys' shower is different than a girls' shower, in terms of sexuality.
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Bigotry comes not from the thoughts in your head. It comes from what you do. It's pretty bigoted to say "gays aren't capable of being good soldiers", or "being around gays will destroy army morale." Actually, the second one is less bigoted and more stupid. But when you say those things, you are a bigot. That's how it works.
    So, anytime I point out the realities of military life, especially when those comments are contrary to what you believe, that's a clear indication that I'm a bigot?

    To that second argument, it's pretty dumb to think that a well trained soldier can handle life and death situations, injury, being shot at, having to shoot other people... But the gay cooties are over the line. That position shows an incredible lack of respect for our fighting force. They're smarter than that, and generally more decent people than that. After all, they're giving up their time, energy, and potentially their lives to serve their country. Don't assume that these people are as petty and fearful as you are.
    Equally dumb to think that female soldiers, who see death and destruction, can't handle sharing showers with male soldiers. Also equally dumb to think that soldiers who deal with life and death situations, can't handle serving with another soldier that is a member of an extremist orginization. You lack of confidence and disrespect for our soldiers and your attempt to use our armed forces to socially engineer our society is obvious.
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We're talking the proffessionalism of the average American soldier and I want to know if you support lifting the ban on memberships in extremist orgs.
    A military member who is openly a member of a hate group (i.e. KKK, Black Panthers, Islamic terrorists group) is not being professional. They have claimed the beliefs/ideals of the group that they are a member of, most of which include a fight against tolerance of a specific group or many groups of people. So, either they are following those tenets that they have agreed to do, which means they are most likely discriminating or worse against someone in their unit or in the military during that time. Or they are lying about truly wanting to be a member of that group. Who joins a group like that who doesn't actually believe that they should act to get others to believe what they do and act on those beliefs? And, if someone is joining such a group while not actually believing in everything that they stand for, then why bother taking the risk of being kicked out of the military for doing so or not being allowed in in the first place?

    Being openly gay doesn't require a person to espouse to any ideas or principles that are hateful or intolerant. All it requires is that someone be attracted to and want to date/be with members of their same sex. Homosexuals aren't required to become a member of any organization to be homosexual.
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Equally dumb to think that female soldiers, who see death and destruction, can't handle sharing showers with male soldiers.
    I agree with this bit at least.

    We should've implemented a Battlestar Galactica style military long ago.

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