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Thread: DADT cloture passes

  1. #441
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Here's a thought. How about the military personnel just do what they are ordered to do? Not to sound mean or anything but isn't that what you all are trained to do? What's that old saying..."you don't have to like it, you just have to do it". I'm sure that those in the military don't actually like killing people...yet they still do it when ordered to. Or are you trying to say that following orders to kill someone is easier than following orders to serve with a particular person who's sexual orientation has no relation in how well they fight?
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  2. #442
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Here's a thought. How about the military personnel just do what they are ordered to do? Not to sound mean or anything but isn't that what you all are trained to do? What's that old saying..."you don't have to like it, you just have to do it". I'm sure that those in the military don't actually like killing people...yet they still do it when ordered to. Or are you trying to say that following orders to kill someone is easier than following orders to serve with a particular person who's sexual orientation has no relation in how well they fight?
    I thanked you for this post, but I have to add something.

    When someone signs up for a combat-related position, there isn't much room to suggest that they take issue with killing someone. Likewise, when someone signs up knowing DADT is in full effect (and support it) sure there are going to be people who dislike a repeal. So I don't quite think the example you used registers the same way. As for your "do what you're told" comment, I couldn't agree more.
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  3. #443
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by E_Pluribus_Venom View Post
    Of course... and that's a dismissal of the original point I made. The military isn't some hive-minded entity that creates some sort of auto-credibility status that comes with saying "I have military experience". So what? It's not a college major with a set course load... it's a diverse working group with a variety of opinions and beliefs. Diversity tends to lessen the weight behind absolute proclamations that sound something like "military experience tells me this will be bad". Your experience perhaps, but not everyones...

    However, a working knowledge of the system allows military veterans to look at this situation from a more informed point of view. The military is a system and it works a certain way. While it's not perfect, it works as it does for a reason. Me and other folks with my experience understand why the military system is what it is. This situation if waaaaay more complex than, "gays can now serve openly in the service".

    I'll use Kal'stang's post as an example,

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Here's a thought. How about the military personnel just do what they are ordered to do? Not to sound mean or anything but isn't that what you all are trained to do? What's that old saying..."you don't have to like it, you just have to do it". I'm sure that those in the military don't actually like killing people...yet they still do it when ordered to. Or are you trying to say that following orders to kill someone is easier than following orders to serve with a particular person who's sexual orientation has no relation in how well they fight?
    It's not ass simple as issueing an order and that's that. That order has to a lawful order.

    It's going to take years to iron all this out and in the future, I would expect local orders that, in effect, create an unofficial version of DADT that applies to everyone. There will be seperate billetting. The military isn't going to be able to force gay and straight soldiers to live together. Ask anyone that's ever been in the Army, or the Marine Corps and they'll tell you the same thing. When ground units, especially combat arms units start living seperately, unit cohesion will suffer. That's part of the reason that un-married soldiers aren't allowed to live outside of the unit billets, until they reach a certain amount of time in service. Then, there's personel accountability. It's gonna be a gaint pain in the ass for a platoon seargent, or a 1st seargent, when their soldiers are living here, there, yonder and all over the place.
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    In all honesty of course its about time this was repealed and you serve admirably or you dont and get tossed out, end of story.

    Whats bothering me is his grandstanding the issue politically

    sign it already, if you truly beleive in something, grandstanding that YOU did it just cheapens it.
    Like donating money, or helping out at the homeless shelter..

    this clown is acting like he just cured cancer

  5. #445
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Well, it's a done deal.

    Obama signs repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell' - Politics - White House - msnbc.com

    Wow. Imagine that. A politician actually keeping a campaign promise and doing what he was elected to do. What's the world coming to?

    Another thing, if Obama had cured cancer, we could count on our disruptive partisan hack republicans to filibuster it. Party first. **** what Americans want.

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  6. #446
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Well done United Statesians. You do get it right occasionally.
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  7. #447
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    However, a working knowledge of the system allows military veterans to look at this situation from a more informed point of view. The military is a system and it works a certain way. While it's not perfect, it works as it does for a reason. Me and other folks with my experience understand why the military system is what it is. This situation if waaaaay more complex than, "gays can now serve openly in the service".

    I'll use Kal'stang's post as an example,



    It's not ass simple as issueing an order and that's that. That order has to a lawful order.
    Ordering them to live in a certain place is a lawful order. Ordering them to serve in the same platoon is also a lawful order.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's going to take years to iron all this out and in the future, I would expect local orders that, in effect, create an unofficial version of DADT that applies to everyone. There will be seperate billetting. The military isn't going to be able to force gay and straight soldiers to live together. Ask anyone that's ever been in the Army, or the Marine Corps and they'll tell you the same thing. When ground units, especially combat arms units start living seperately, unit cohesion will suffer. That's part of the reason that un-married soldiers aren't allowed to live outside of the unit billets, until they reach a certain amount of time in service. Then, there's personel accountability. It's gonna be a gaint pain in the ass for a platoon seargent, or a 1st seargent, when their soldiers are living here, there, yonder and all over the place.
    As gays and straights have already been living together I see no reason why they cannot. Even if it wasn't openly, people still knew they served.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  8. #448
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Most of those identities, cultures and personalities don't prevent unit members from living in the same billets. If they do, those personel are chaptered out of the service for, "an inability to adapt to military life".

    That cohabitation is the glue that creates unit cohesion. I'm sure your military experience tells you that. Yes?
    It is only considered "an inability to adapt to military life" if a person's behaviors actually affect the unit negatively (except with DADT or a ban on gays is in place). The military forces people together all the time who normally would not be friends or even like each other, for whatever reason. The things that leadership should be concerned with are intolerance and people who are actually breaking military rules that would truly cause problems in the unit, not discriminatory rules designed to alleviate problems based possible intolerance problems or possible violations of military rules.

    IOW, if a gay servicemember is hitting on or sexually assaulting his fellow unit members, then he should be put out of the military. But if there are others who can't tolerate or who discriminate against anyone based on their sexuality, then they are the ones who should be put out of the military, not the one who is facing the intolerance or discrimination.
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  9. #449
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    However, a working knowledge of the system allows military veterans to look at this situation from a more informed point of view. The military is a system and it works a certain way. While it's not perfect, it works as it does for a reason. Me and other folks with my experience understand why the military system is what it is. This situation if waaaaay more complex than, "gays can now serve openly in the service".

    I'll use Kal'stang's post as an example,



    It's not ass simple as issueing an order and that's that. That order has to a lawful order.

    It's going to take years to iron all this out and in the future, I would expect local orders that, in effect, create an unofficial version of DADT that applies to everyone. There will be seperate billetting. The military isn't going to be able to force gay and straight soldiers to live together. Ask anyone that's ever been in the Army, or the Marine Corps and they'll tell you the same thing. When ground units, especially combat arms units start living seperately, unit cohesion will suffer. That's part of the reason that un-married soldiers aren't allowed to live outside of the unit billets, until they reach a certain amount of time in service. Then, there's personel accountability. It's gonna be a gaint pain in the ass for a platoon seargent, or a 1st seargent, when their soldiers are living here, there, yonder and all over the place.
    There will not be seperate billeting or showers. The military has already said that.
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  10. #450
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    Re: DADT cloture passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Well, it's a done deal.

    Obama signs repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell' - Politics - White House - msnbc.com

    Wow. Imagine that. A politician actually keeping a campaign promise and doing what he was elected to do. What's the world coming to?

    Another thing, if Obama had cured cancer, we could count on our disruptive partisan hack republicans to filibuster it. Party first. **** what Americans want.
    They'd attack Obama for destroying all those Oncologist jobs!
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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