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Thread: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually, in America, it is legal to shoot armed robbers in almost every state, under almost all circumstances.
    Hmm. I'll hold off on talking too much about what that says about the States, and instead say, I still think the most moral outcome is a situation in which causes the least harm to humans -- in this case, a simple robbery. So, while it is perhaps unfortunately legal to kill criminals in the States, I think that in most cases, it is still immoral.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The guns were to ensure obedience. Petty thieves never want to actually kill someone. That is criminology 101. :

    Horse ****.


    Twenty years ago my best friend in the world was robbed at his business at gunpoint. He cooperated fully. His reward was to be kidnapped, taken to a backroad, and shot in the head. He was the only child of a widow woman.

    When people come at you armed, you do not know what their intentions are, but you do know this: they have decided that "get money!" is more important than the inherent risk of armed robbery to the lives of the innocent.

    All armed robbers should be shot dead. I don't give a flying **** if this was their first time or their tenth. I don't care if they're 18 and had a bad home life. They don't care about innocent life, so I don't care about them.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Hmm. I'll hold off on talking too much about what that says about the States, and instead say, I still think the most moral outcome is a situation in which causes the least harm to humans -- in this case, a simple robbery. So, while it is perhaps unfortunately legal to kill criminals in the States, I think that in most cases, it is still immoral.
    I happen to disagree. I think that risking your own life to kill armed robbers is a higher morality than allowing them to succeed in their crime and go on to victimize others.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    All armed robbers should be shot dead. I don't give a flying **** if this was their first time or their tenth. I don't care if they're 18 and had a bad home life. They don't care about innocent life, so I don't care about them.
    Exactly. To quote the ever eloquent Captain Reynolds: "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!"
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I happen to disagree. I think that risking your own life to kill armed robbers is a higher morality than allowing them to succeed in their crime and go on to victimize others.
    Mind that in some situations, I do agree, and that from what I've heard of the particular area in which the crime was committed, this may be approaching one of those situations where that action was justified, or atleast permissible.

    However, I do think that, if intent on finding a higher morality in the pursuit of bringing justice to criminals (which is absolutely a noble pursuit), one should join the police force, or some branch of the justice department.

    Vigilante justice is sometimes justified, and often times not.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    The life of the victim, I agree, is to be supported and aided more than the life of the criminal, but both lives are worth more than any of the possessions either was carrying, as Orion said.
    I disagree. When someone comes brandishing weapon tying to rob someone that dirt on the ground is worth more than that criminal's life. That urine stained floor and **** stained toilet in the bathroom is worth more than that criminal's life.

    He hit the nail on the head. The problem here is that people are actively thinking "Yeah, whoo! That guy killed three people trying to rob him, way to go!" And they don't see the problem there, because a materialistic selfishness is quite prominent in a lot of peoples' minds today.
    The guy killed three scumbags trying to rob and possibly kill him. There is no problem.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Mind that in some situations, I do agree, and that from what I've heard of the particular area in which the crime was committed, this may be approaching one of those situations where that action was justified, or atleast permissible.

    However, I do think that, if intent on finding a higher morality in the pursuit of bringing justice to criminals (which is absolutely a noble pursuit), one should join the police force, or some branch of the justice department.

    Vigilante justice is sometimes justified, and often times not.

    Again, we have a very different viewpoint.

    Self-defense is not vigilante justice.

    "Vigilante justice" is when you go out looking for trouble.

    Self-defense is when trouble finds you and you protect yourself and your own.

    I oppose Vigilantism, in most cases. I support self-defense. They are not the same.
    Last edited by Goshin; 12-21-10 at 09:30 AM.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Mind that in some situations, I do agree, and that from what I've heard of the particular area in which the crime was committed, this may be approaching one of those situations where that action was justified, or atleast permissible.

    However, I do think that, if intent on finding a higher morality in the pursuit of bringing justice to criminals (which is absolutely a noble pursuit), one should join the police force, or some branch of the justice department.

    Vigilante justice is sometimes justified, and often times not.
    And, in this case, highly desirable. This was justified, both legally and morally. Or should he have just sat there, after his wife had been tied up, and take a chance that the robbers would not kill him and his wife both? Like our forefathers said, we are entitled to life, liberty, and property. If some POS attempts to take any of the three, then the Second Amendment comes in quite handy.
    Last edited by danarhea; 12-20-10 at 08:22 PM.
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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Hmm. I'll hold off on talking too much about what that says about the States,
    Unlike the UK the US pretty much does not have any sympathy for criminals trying to rob and possibly rape and or kill innocent people.

    and instead say, I still think the most moral outcome is a situation in which causes the least harm to humans -- in this case, a simple robbery.
    If you are capable then the most moral thing to do is to stop the criminal regardless if it cost the criminal his life.

    So, while it is perhaps unfortunately legal to kill criminals in the States, I think that in most cases, it is still immoral.
    There is absolutely nothing immoral about killing a scumbag who is threatening you,your family, someone else or your property or lively hood.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    However, I do think that, if intent on finding a higher morality in the pursuit of bringing justice to criminals (which is absolutely a noble pursuit), one should join the police force, or some branch of the justice department.

    .

    Been there, done that, but in America we do not consider the police to be the sole custodians of the public safety. All American citizens are responsible for helping protect themselves and their community. American citizens have citizen arrest powers, including the right to use force in carrying out a citizen's arrest under certain circumstances. Americans have the Constitutional right to be armed, and the established tradition of defending self and community from human predators.

    Makes me wanna yell OO-FRICKIN'-RAH about right here, how 'bout you guys...

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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