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Thread: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    The old addage says, "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
    In my eyes, defending me or my family in a life threatening situation will always put me in the right. Legally, I may go to prison, but at least I stood between me and my loved ones when danger came a-knocking.
    Now, that, no-one can argue with -- or atleast, I certainly wont.

    My issue comes with the fact that the men had not come to assassinate him, or harm him -- just to steal from him.

    So this man has perhaps given his life to protect... His money. Which is the sad part.

    I would stand by any attempt to protect the lives of innocents, or of the self, etc. It seems foolhardy to me, however, that a man with probably no military training, and a gung-ho attitude, took up a gun and perhaps got himself killed because people were stealing from his shop.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    . They got killed over jewelery. Pieces of metal. I think, if anything, this story goes to show the madness of property ownership in our society... that THINGS are more important than LIVES. It's the very reason why people become criminals on the bottom rung of the ladder in the first place, because the system values things over the well being of people.

    No one person should ever have the power to be judge, jury and executioner. If he survives his injuries, the store owner should be charged with triple homicide.

    LIVES should always be more important than THINGS. You let the robbers take everything. Your life is more important than stuff, and so is theirs.
    It’s not about the jewelry. They got killed because they walked in to his store carrying guns. The man was defending his own life, plain and simple. Someone walks towards me brandishing a firearm in a threatening manner; I’m not waiting to see if they shoot first.

    The life of the victim is always more important than the life of a BG.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    It’s not about the jewelry. They got killed because they walked in to his store carrying guns. The man was defending his own life, plain and simple. Someone walks towards me brandishing a firearm in a threatening manner; I’m not waiting to see if they shoot first.

    The life of the victim is always more important than the life of a BG.
    The life of the victim, I agree, is to be supported and aided more than the life of the criminal, but both lives are worth more than any of the possessions either was carrying, as Orion said.

    He hit the nail on the head. The problem here is that people are actively thinking "Yeah, whoo! That guy killed three people trying to rob him, way to go!" And they don't see the problem there, because a materialistic selfishness is quite prominent in a lot of peoples' minds today.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Itís not about the jewelry. They got killed because they walked in to his store carrying guns. The man was defending his own life, plain and simple. Someone walks towards me brandishing a firearm in a threatening manner; Iím not waiting to see if they shoot first.
    The guns were to ensure obedience. Petty thieves never want to actually kill someone. That is criminology 101. It's the psychos and serial killers that do the killing in our society. Robbers just want stuff, because they don't have stuff; and now, they are dead because of STUFF.

    The store owner could have just as easily died himself, and then we would be saying, "Oh those robbers, how awful." Or better yet, we wouldn't even be talking about it because it would be the "good guy" who died and there isn't a news story in that.

    Any police officer will tell you that you should always cooperate with someone who has a gun, and that if they are simply robbing you, you should give them whatever they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    The life of the victim is always more important than the life of a BG.
    Then we have two different philosophies, which is why crime will never be stopped.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The guns were to ensure obedience. Petty thieves never want to actually kill someone. That is criminology 101. It's the psychos and serial killers that do the killing in our society. Robbers just want stuff, because they don't have stuff; and now, they are dead because of STUFF.
    They had no problem shooting back at the store owner. I'd agree with you if the store owner drew and they booked out, but it sounds instead like they tried to kill him. Anyone trained in self-defense knows you don't shoot someone who is already running the opposite direction and contrary to the media belief, gun carriers are NOT looking for excuses to kill someone. We prepare for the day we have to use our weapons and we pray it never comes...

    Then we have two different philosophies, which is why crime will never be stopped.
    On the contrary, armed citizens are an excellent deterrent to crime.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    They had no problem shooting back at the store owner.
    The article doesn't say who fired the first shot because the footage is still being reviewed, but my guess is that it was the store owner. That is usually how it works. The suspects just want the loot, they don't want to kill anybody - that is how it happens with robberies.

    Also, you don't seem to notice your own hypocrisy when you say the store owner was just defending himself, yet the suspects had it coming when the store owner shot at them? Hypocrisy at its finest.

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    I'd agree with you if the store owner drew and they booked out, but it sounds instead like they tried to kill him.
    The article does not confirm who fired the first shot so you can't really assume that.

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Anyone trained in self-defense knows you don't shoot someone who is already running the opposite direction and contrary to the media belief, gun carriers are NOT looking for excuses to kill someone. We prepare for the day we have to use our weapons and we pray it never comes...
    I have no beef with the second amendment and I support the right to carry arms. My issue here is a matter of law and order, and people having the "right" to kill others, especially over property. Property is not equal in value to lives, and any store owner should have insurance. If the store owner killed them over property, then he deserves to rot in jail forever; if he was truly defending himself, then I can sort of sympathize with that, but the surveillance tapes have to confirm that he did not fire the first shot. If he did, then it's not self-defense, and he should rot.

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    On the contrary, armed citizens are an excellent deterrent to crime.
    Again, my issue here is not guns, but the application of them. You should always have a right to bear arms, but you have no right to USE them as you please.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The article doesn't say who fired the first shot because the footage is still being reviewed, but my guess is that it was the store owner. That is usually how it works. The suspects just want the loot, they don't want to kill anybody - that is how it happens with robberies.
    If they didnít want to kill anyone, the way out of the store is always faster than staying and exchanging shots.

    Also, you don't seem to notice your own hypocrisy when you say the store owner was just defending himself, yet the suspects had it coming when the store owner shot at them? Hypocrisy at its finest.
    No hypocrisy whatsoever. The store owner was defending himself against armed assailants. No one in their right mind waits to see if someone with a gun is going to shoot them first. Surprise is a huge tactical advantage. Moreover, why should I sympathize with robbers who knowingly broke the law and were held to account when the store owner met force with force. Color me broken hearted that these BGs wonít be victimizing or shooting anyone else. Btw, I never said they "had it coming." :2razz

    The article does not confirm who fired the first shot so you can't really assume that.
    Immaterial. Again, will you wait to be shot before you fight back when someone pulls a gun on you?

    I have no beef with the second amendment and I support the right to carry arms. My issue here is a matter of law and order, and people having the "right" to kill others, especially over property. Property is not equal in value to lives, and any store owner should have insurance. If the store owner killed them over property, then he deserves to rot in jail forever; if he was truly defending himself, then I can sort of sympathize with that, but the surveillance tapes have to confirm that he did not fire the first shot. If he did, then it's not self-defense, and he should rot.
    What guarantee did the owner have that he would live if he gave up his property? Also, it can still be ruled self-defense if he fired first. I suggest you review your laws.

    Again, my issue here is not guns, but the application of them. You should always have a right to bear arms, but you have no right to USE them as you please.
    No one is saying that we want to shoot anyone we please. Iím not advocating a Wild West scenario. AGAIN, Iím simply stating that when someone approaches you in a threatening manner with a gun, you DONíT wait. That hesitation can be the difference between you living and dying. Self-defense is NOT using my gun as I please.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Now, that, no-one can argue with -- or atleast, I certainly wont.

    My issue comes with the fact that the men had not come to assassinate him, or harm him -- just to steal from him.

    So this man has perhaps given his life to protect... His money. Which is the sad part.

    I would stand by any attempt to protect the lives of innocents, or of the self, etc. It seems foolhardy to me, however, that a man with probably no military training, and a gung-ho attitude, took up a gun and perhaps got himself killed because people were stealing from his shop.
    You don't know much about Houston, Texas. Robbers here frequently kill those they rob, so as not to leave any witnesses. Your best protection in Texas is not the police, but a gun, and the willingness to shoot those who might harm you graveyard dead.
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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    You don't know much about Houston, Texas. Robbers here frequently kill those they rob, so as not to leave any witnesses. Your best protection in Texas is not the police, but a gun, and the willingness to shoot those who might harm you graveyard dead.
    I'll have to take your word for how uncivilised Texas is. XD


    Now, if what you say is true, and the entirety of Texas is like living in the East End of London, then I would still argue that there are probably better ways to solve such a situation than killing the three robbers, but it does put the robbery into a different light. Mind you, not too different of a light -- it doesn't change the fact that the entire debacle was about portable property, but when there's an increased element of physical danger, there's an increased necessity for examining the exact chronology of events, and other possible options the shop owner had.

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    Re: Store owner in critical condition after killing robbery suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Marteau View Post
    Shot them.

    I'm not all I want to be.

    He did what I would have done, and he did what most of us think was the acceptable solution to the situation.

    That doesn't make it right, nor legally justified.


    Now, that raises another question -- to what extent should your life be governed by your laws and society's morals? I could say more, and answer it myself, but hopefully, if I don't do so, we'll have more of a discussion.
    Actually, in America, it is legal to shoot armed robbers in almost every state, under almost all circumstances.

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