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Vick says he would like a pet dog; anger follows

Should Michael Vick be allowed to own a dog?


  • Total voters
    43
I also have no problem killing animals, even dogs for food. What I do have a problem with is torturing them to death for entertainment. I am also completely convinced that anyone engaged in said torture cannot be rehabilitated.
An interesting assertion - I'm not sure I agree. While Vick presumably had no empathy for the dogs he more or less killed for sport, I don't think that means he's incapable of empathy for a dog.

That's just my intuition - never studied empathy, but it seems like an interesting topic.
 
An interesting assertion - I'm not sure I agree. While Vick presumably had no empathy for the dogs he more or less killed for sport, I don't think that means he's incapable of empathy for a dog.

That's just my intuition - never studied empathy, but it seems like an interesting topic.

I studied it a little after a teacher sparked an interest. It's the major qualifier for being a psychopath: a lack of empathy. Everything I've read says it can't be taught, certainly not to an adult. There's some clinics working with children with mixed results. It'd be interesting to get Captain Courtesy on here to comment.

It has been shown that punishment and behavior modification techniques do not improve the behavior of psychopaths. Psychopathic individuals have been regularly observed to become more cunning and better able to hide their behaviour. It has been suggested that traditional therapeutic approaches actually make psychopaths more adept at manipulating others and concealing their behavior. They are generally considered to be not only incurable but also untreatable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Management

I'm not saying Vick is a full blown psychopath, only highlighting that there is no treatment for those that lack empathy.
 
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I studied it a little after a teacher sparked an interest. It's the major qualifier for being a psychopath: a lack of empathy. Everything I've read says it can't be taught, certainly not to an adult. There's some clinics working with children with mixed results. It'd be interesting to get Captain Courtesy on here to comment.



Psychopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying Vick is a full blown psychopath, only highlighting that there is no treatment for those that lack empathy.


yup, you can't teach empathy, you can only teach them to hide their lack of empathy.
 
So I guess a person being convicted as a wife-beater shouldn't ever get married again...

A person who has anger issues shouldn't be around sharp utensils...

People, all of these things can be corrected. The area of psychology today has grown by leaps and bounds. People can be rehabilitated. That's why I would very much like to see prisons replaced by vocational schools housed in pysch-wards. People who have previous plocivities for violence can get real help for once. The problem there is, we all usually have some button, that if pushed, could get us into that very same psych-ward.

Why are you all being so unforgiveable?

Have you never made a mistake before?

My God! People kill people and are then released back into society on probation. Some without any probation...Go figure That One!

We're talking about one dog here!!! What an excellent opportunity to give Vick the chance to prove himself a really good guy afterall. This will give him a chance to do something good for himself, his family (they have to live with the stigma too), the NFL, and finally, the dog.

Suppose Vick pampers the dog. Suppose he treats his dog better than your high-classes ever would!

Give the man a chance! Thumbs Up!
 
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I studied it a little after a teacher sparked an interest. It's the major qualifier for being a psychopath: a lack of empathy. Everything I've read says it can't be taught, certainly not to an adult. There's some clinics working with children with mixed results. It'd be interesting to get Captain Courtesy on here to comment.
Oh yes, I agree with this part. Where I don't agree is that Vick's dog fighting indicates that he has a lack of empathy as a person. Yes he surely had a lack of empathy for those dogs, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that he is incapable of "normal" empathy. If that makes any sense (ugh, hard to explain).
 
Oh yes, I agree with this part. Where I don't agree is that Vick's dog fighting indicates that he has a lack of empathy as a person. Yes he surely had a lack of empathy for those dogs, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that he is incapable of "normal" empathy. If that makes any sense (ugh, hard to explain).

No, I understand. I'm sure he feels empathy for his kids, for example.
 
This is the ACTUAL cover page from today's New York Post.

LOL, do you think they're taking that come-from-behind loss to Philly yesterday a little hard in the Big Apple?

Wow.

front122010.jpg
 
This is the ACTUAL cover page from today's New York Post.

LOL, do you think they're taking that come-from-behind loss to Philly yesterday a little hard in the Big Apple?

Wow.

front122010.jpg

Considering that the Yankee's lost Cliff Lee its just another insult to injury. That game looked like it was going to the Giants game until that last play.
 
I studied it a little after a teacher sparked an interest. It's the major qualifier for being a psychopath: a lack of empathy. Everything I've read says it can't be taught, certainly not to an adult. There's some clinics working with children with mixed results. It'd be interesting to get Captain Courtesy on here to comment.



Psychopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not saying Vick is a full blown psychopath, only highlighting that there is no treatment for those that lack empathy.


Keltzie, as I said earlier I know a guy who used to fight dogs when he was younger. He did it for a while in his 20's and then gave it up. If you ask him why he did it, his answer is along the lines of "I was young and dumb."

He currently has three dogs, two little fuzzballs that stay indoors and a big dog that lives in the fenced back yard. Those dogs are like family to him. They get first-class dog food, they go to the vet at the slightest provocation, they're spoiled rotten. He loves those dogs almost as much as he loves his kids. He's a good guy.

You don't have to be a psychopath or an evil person to have been involved in dog fighting. "Young and dumb" is an adequate explanation. People can get over it.
 
Considering that the Yankee's lost Cliff Lee its just another insult to injury. That game looked like it was going to the Giants game until that last play.

I agree with the sentiment of the picture as it relates to Vick, but I don't think a newpaper should stoop to that. Pretty classless to compare losing a football game to the murder and mulilation of thousands of puppies.
 
No, I understand. I'm sure he feels empathy for his kids, for example.
The part that interests me is what triggers the on/off switch. We all have different standards of empathy. I have no qualms about squishing ants or killing flies, but do start to feel sorry for spiders (can you believe it?) and will try to get them to climb on a piece of paper to be quickly tossed out the door. I think it's because (rational or not) I see spiders as having a little more "free will" than ants and flies and can kind of empathize with their motives.

It seems that very normal, healthy people can be trained to "turn off" the empathy switch. We know this from historical example, and there are of course several social experiments conducted in the 60's that purport to show this (e.g. Zimbardo's Prison Study and Milgram's Shock Experiment).

I have no idea what Vick's standard might be, or whether his lack of empathy for fighting dogs was natural or learned, but I do think it's possible for him to have a dog as a pet and treat it well - so long as he views it as a member of the family, so to speak - despite having such a deplorable past record. But I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise.
 
Keltzie, as I said earlier I know a guy who used to fight dogs when he was younger. He did it for a while in his 20's and then gave it up. If you ask him why he did it, his answer is along the lines of "I was young and dumb."

He currently has three dogs, two little fuzzballs that stay indoors and a big dog that lives in the fenced back yard. Those dogs are like family to him. They get first-class dog food, they go to the vet at the slightest provocation, they're spoiled rotten. He loves those dogs almost as much as he loves his kids. He's a good guy.

You don't have to be a psychopath or an evil person to have been involved in dog fighting. "Young and dumb" is an adequate explanation. People can get over it.

I don't think I could have been more explicit in stating that I don't think Vick is a psychopath. And while I won't argue with the dumb part, he doesn't strike me as that young.
 
Keltzie, as I said earlier I know a guy who used to fight dogs when he was younger. He did it for a while in his 20's and then gave it up. If you ask him why he did it, his answer is along the lines of "I was young and dumb."

He currently has three dogs, two little fuzzballs that stay indoors and a big dog that lives in the fenced back yard. Those dogs are like family to him. They get first-class dog food, they go to the vet at the slightest provocation, they're spoiled rotten. He loves those dogs almost as much as he loves his kids. He's a good guy.

You don't have to be a psychopath or an evil person to have been involved in dog fighting. "Young and dumb" is an adequate explanation. People can get over it.

Once....okay.

But to literaly kill thousands of dogs at your own hand, for many years, because they didn't "measure up" shows a serious character flaw at the least, and possibly a psychotic tendancy at the worst.

How you could take a puppy that didn't have the "measureables" into your hands, grab it by the head, twist it until the neck snaps, and throw it in a pile of other dead puppies it beyond my comprehension.
 
The part that interests me is what triggers the on/off switch. We all have different standards of empathy. I have no qualms about squishing ants or killing flies, but do start to feel sorry for spiders (can you believe it?) and will try to get them to climb on a piece of paper to be quickly tossed out the door. I think it's because (rational or not) I see spiders as having a little more "free will" than ants and flies and can kind of empathize with their motives.

It seems that very normal, healthy people can be trained to "turn off" the empathy switch. We know this from historical example, and there are of course several social experiments conducted in the 60's that purport to show this (e.g. Zimbardo's Prison Study and Milgram's Shock Experiment).

I have no idea what Vick's standard might be, or whether his lack of empathy for fighting dogs was natural or learned, but I do think it's possible for him to have a dog as a pet and treat it well - so long as he views it as a member of the family, so to speak - despite having such a deplorable past record. But I'm certainly open to being convinced otherwise.

I think it's possible for him to treat it well. His treatment of this dog will have the full scrutiny of the media. I have serious doubts that he'll ever care for it like a normal dog owner.
 
WHAT!!!!!

You mean you'd give a child molester a second chance at an actual child (an impressionable and developing human being), but you wouldn't give Vick a second chance with a freaking DOG!!!

That's just straight bananas!
NO....if you read carefully you wouldn't have misconstrued what I wrote. I'm willing to give people a second chance at LIFE. I would NEVER put a child molester back in contact with a child and I would never put Michael Vick back in contact with a dog.
 
"Minor" forms of child molestation? :shock: What could that possibly be? No perv who's ever acted on his attraction to children should ever be allowed around children ever again.

Child Molestation can vary in degrees. Legally it is considered "Child Molestation" for a twenty year old to engage in sex with a 16 year old. Should THAT person go away for life? Or perhaps a child molestor that inappropriately touches a child on a playground. Yes, that person should be punished severely, but locked up in prison for life? No, not in my book. They should received a hefty sentence, but should be given a second chance at their life, albeit, they should NEVER be allowed to be near children unsupervised ever again. THAT is what I am talking about.
A person who sexually abuses a child by engaging in oral sex or genital penetration, should be locked up for the rest of their life in prison in my view.

Getting back to Vick. Should Vick be locked in prison forever? No. Should he be banned from the NFL? No. Should he be given a second chance at life? Absolutely.
Should a dog ever be put back in the hands of his mercy? Never. Vick forfeited that by his prior unconscionable activity.
 
Once....okay.

But to literaly kill thousands of dogs at your own hand, for many years, because they didn't "measure up" shows a serious character flaw at the least, and possibly a psychotic tendancy at the worst.

How you could take a puppy that didn't have the "measureables" into your hands, grab it by the head, twist it until the neck snaps, and throw it in a pile of other dead puppies it beyond my comprehension.

Really? Is that a factual aspect of the story? I hadn't heard that part... probably because I haven't taken much intrest in this story from the get-go, being neither a ball fan nor all that agitated about dog fighting.

If that is true, then yeah that's pretty bad.

Of course, you could also consider how people who work at the animal shelter manage to "put to sleep" thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies and kittens every year and still be animal lovers.
 
Of course, you could also consider how people who work at the animal shelter manage to "put to sleep" thousands upon thousands of dogs, cats, puppies and kittens every year and still be animal lovers.

Hardly even close to the same thing.
 
I agree with the sentiment of the picture as it relates to Vick, but I don't think a newpaper should stoop to that. Pretty classless to compare losing a football game to the murder and mulilation of thousands of puppies.

Ok! Now you're going too far!

It wasn't thousands of puppies!
 
Ok! Now you're going too far!

It wasn't thousands of puppies!

Vick admitted to killing 8 himself. But his "ring" had been breeding and selectively weeding out the offspring of dogs for years.
 
Really? The man who loves dogs fought them to death? Oh, please do explain your logic on this one.

There is a big difference between a fighting dog and a pet. Some of these guys probably don't make a distinction but I would be willing to some do. Some in their own twisted way I am sure love their dogs. They put them in there to win not to die. And I am sure there are a lot of twisted, cruel people fighting dogs that are sociopaths. Vick impresses me as someone who can make the distinction and be a pet owner. I could be wrong. Just my opinion.
 
So Jet. Then, apparently, you eat dog?

Yuck.
 
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Vick admitted to killing 8 himself. But his "ring" had been breeding and selectively weeding out the offspring of dogs for years.
I would imagine that most of the breeds of dogs we have today are the result of similar practices. If Vick has a "serious character flaw" it's that he was doing something he knew was socially unacceptable/reprehensible. People have been killing unwanted animals and even their own babies for 1000's of years.
 
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