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Vick says he would like a pet dog; anger follows

Should Michael Vick be allowed to own a dog?

  • Total voters
    43
Hancock said:
Don't be so easily fooled. Most MMA fighters don't fight because they want to! Most boxers don't box because they want to! They fight because there's a purse invovled. THEY FIGHT FOR MONEY!!!!
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and that makes them different than 95% of the people who have jobs?
 
Ikari said:
Man was able to hunt Mammoths before guns. Guns make it easier; but there's also tactics and understanding of animals and their habits. Animals are not on the same level as humans. We may feel this or that for certain creatures; but in the end we do treat them like property. And they are a type of property in all legal sense.
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That's not exactly true. There are laws against abusing animals which mean there are legal limits to what you can do to animal. This is not the case for most other types of property.
 
Hancock said:
I have no idea what your last question is asking!

First of all, you of all people should already know that just because you're 18 years old, that does NOT make you sound of mind. Besides, when you really examine the human species, who if any of us are really "sound of mind"... Human beings live by the unrelenting theme of veritable contradiction.

So when an MMA fighter gets into the ring, do you really think that he has completely and rationally thought things out? Alternatively, perhaps he's just tossing the dice in hopes that he will get lucky. Based upon his self-believed skills and his possible prior successful triumphant fight record, he takes an educated guess and gambles that he will win. Most MMA fighters in particular, if given money NOT to fight, would prefer NOT to fight. It's the money that they're after, not the glory! It most certainly is not the glory, because the risk of getting your clock cleaned is NOT worth all the glory in the world...

Let's not forget, people eat animals! In some countries people eat dogs, cats, and chickens. I would much prefer that a dog, a cat, or perhaps a chicken lose its life, as opposed to another human being becoming injured. When that MMA fighter gets into the ring, has he really thought the situation out completely? Has he really been that rational human being? I think NOT!

He has not considered the possibility of suffering trauma to the brain. Enough trauma will render anyone brain dead. Minor trauma over extended periods of time can cause permanent damage, as well... ie Muhammed Ali.

I personally would order the killing of millions of dogs, if I could save the life, limb, or quality of life for just one human being.

PS.

Where did you get the idea that anybody can find a job?

People are now lining up by the hundreds just to work for Walmart and Burger King!
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LOL, MMA fighters know the risks better than you ever could. That's why they train so hard, to minimize their risks. They certainly don't need you protecting them from themselves. Another thing you don't know is that MMA is less likely to result in significant head injury than boxing or football. Whatever, it's apparent you're not interested reality but rather you want to stick to your ridiculous assertions no matter how many times they're shown to be incorrect. I find your sig to be extremely ironic.

Hancock said:
People are now lining up by the hundreds just to work for Walmart and Burger King!
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That's weird, why are they not all lining up to become MMA fighters since you're claiming that's the only way the poor make it out of poverty. :roll:
 
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Hancock said:
So are you saying that most of these guys couldn't be bribed NOT to fight?

Dude, please!

It's entirely about the money!
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:lamo

Okay, go ahead and ignore someone who's been a prizefighter. You couldn't have bribed me to stay out of the ring in my day... I liked to fight. (I was young, lol.)
 
Goshin said:
:lamo

Okay, go ahead and ignore someone who's been a prizefighter. You couldn't have bribed me to stay out of the ring in my day... I liked to fight. (I was young, lol.)
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This whole discussion has become laughable. There may have been a time in which someone would have seen boxing as a ticket out.

With MMA there is just way too much blood and sweat gone into it to be taken so lightly. For boxing I had one cousin who went pro for the simple fact he loved the sport.
As Goshin states these guys aren't going to take a bribe. The assertion is 100% BUNK.
 
Hancock said:
I practiced Tae Kwon Do for eight years. I was in the US coast guard for six years. I very well know the difference between merely taking classes and being TRAINED versus putting your butt on the line for slaughter. In both boxing and the MMA, one lucky punch or kick, respectively can ruin you for the rest of your life.
It's funny to me when you mentioned comraderie. Sometimes sparring partners end up actually fighting one another in the ring. They are regarded as "being professional" when they are able to put their frienship aside, so they can bash one anothers heads in all for the purpose of entertainment and money. That's what I call real friendship!

Like I said before, human beings never cease to amaze me!

PS.

We seem to have an unquenchable thirst for violence, aggression, bloodshed, and ego-adoration...
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Before you pretend to understand it, try visiting an MMA gym. Sure...some attitudes dont mesh. Most of the people in the gym work together. They train together.

So...while you were training for Tae Kwon Do were you engaging in it because you loved it or because it was 'the only way out'? :roll:

Those that reach the pinaccle of ANY contact sport do it not because they are trying to get out of the ghetto (way to revive some 60's boxing stereotype). People compete in the octagon for free...for t-shirts...for gift coupons...for pride. The military has incorporated it in its soldier training. Those that are making a living at it count themselves lucky...they arent some Richard Gere, running drills in the rain, snot dripping down their face screamin to their DI "I got nowhere else to go!"
 
Hancock said:
So are you saying that most of these guys couldn't be bribed NOT to fight?

Dude, please!

It's entirely about the money!
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Considering the GREAT...and I mean VAST majority...like 99% of people that engage in MMA will NEVER make money at it, thats kind of a silly notion you are clinging to.
 
Goshin said:
:lamo

Okay, go ahead and ignore someone who's been a prizefighter. You couldn't have bribed me to stay out of the ring in my day... I liked to fight. (I was young, lol.)
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I fought amateur...wasnt bad, but I figured 12-4 would never translate to a pro career. I still spar to this day. Its great exercise. I worked with my son while he was training MMA...he wasnt bad...a sucker for armbars...but he still works at it while in the army. Its just foolishness to present as a valid argument the only reason engage in MMA or boxing or martial arts is because they see it as a source of income.
 
X Factor said:
LOL, MMA fighters know the risks better than you ever could. That's why they train so hard, to minimize their risks. They certainly don't need you protecting them from themselves. Another thing you don't know is that MMA is less likely to result in significant head injury than boxing or football. Whatever, it's apparent you're not interested reality but rather you want to stick to your ridiculous assertions no matter how many times they're shown to be incorrect. I find your sig to be extremely ironic.

That's weird, why are they not all lining up to become MMA fighters since you're claiming that's the only way the poor make it out of poverty. :roll:
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There's no way that Jose Aldo, Shane Mosley, Smooth Ben Henderson, or Anthony Pettis would fight in the MMA without the money!

Have you ever read their bios or even listened to their interviews?
 
VanceMack said:
Considering the GREAT...and I mean VAST majority...like 99% of people that engage in MMA will NEVER make money at it, thats kind of a silly notion you are clinging to.
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And the overwhelming majority would like to make money at it! If they listen too much to their egos and not enough to reality, they'll stay in the "game" too long and they'll be looking for charity and someone to lead them to the restroom.
 
Hancock said:
And the overwhelming majority would like to make money at it! If they listen too much to their egos and not enough to reality, they'll stay in the "game" too long and they'll be looking for charity and someone to lead them to the restroom.
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That they DONT make money at it and continue to train spar and fight sorta disproves your point. Every gym rate has fantasies of playing in the NBA...but they play for the love of the game. You dont take the physical pounding for any other reason.
 
One thing that this thread has accomplished is separating those who know about fighting and those who have only been to the movies......I will leave it at that.
 
MaggieD said:
You may not agree that animals are nothing more than personal property, but that's what the law says.

I don't agree with it either, but that's the way it is...all 50 states.
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I know legally they are, and I'm glad you agree :). But I was just questioning the validity of the law is all.
 
VanceMack said:
That they DONT make money at it and continue to train spar and fight sorta disproves your point. Every gym rate has fantasies of playing in the NBA...but they play for the love of the game. You dont take the physical pounding for any other reason.
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The only time a person should inflict pain upon another or subject another to severe injury, should be at a time of emergency, when there no other options. Strictly for defensive purposes only! Otherwise, the people involved are not thinking clearly.

For a person to voluntarily enter the ring with another person of equivalent destructive skills, for the purpose of intentional detriment, is irrational. Your opponent could deliver the most devastating blow to your head that you've ever encountered. As highly skilled as Ben Henderson is, he got caught with a kick to the head, that cost him the championship. That kick could just as well, have cost him his life or his ability to control his motor functions.

Fighters take chances to become great so that they can earn more money. After you do it for awhile, it becomes your only employable skill. There's nothing else you can do to earn money (except to work at Kelzie's Hamburger joint).

These fighters, fight for money. If not for immediate big money, it's for big money down the line. Otherwise, the risk exceeds the rewards in time. While you're young, you take the risk. If you're not so successful, you get out. It's a very quick game and a very dangerous game. All played for the money!
 
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I think he should able to have a dog. It's not like if he buys a collie puppy he is going to train it to fight. What he did before was to train traditional fighting dogs to fight. I know it may be a shocker to you but he probably loves dogs. Get over it people.
 
Hancock said:
The only time a person should inflict pain upon another or subject another to severe injury, should be at a time of emergency, when there no other options. Strictly for defensive purposes only! Otherwise, the people involved are not thinking clearly.

For a person to voluntarily enter the ring with another person of equivalent destructive skills, for the purpose of intentional detriment, is irrational. Your opponent could deliver the most devastating blow to your head that you've ever encountered. As highly skilled as Ben Henderson is, he got caught with a kick to the head, that cost him the championship. That kick could just as well, have cost him his life or his ability to control his motor functions.

Fighters take chances to become great so that they can earn more money. After you do it for awhile, it becomes your only employable skill. There's nothing else you can do to earn money (except to work at Kelzie's Hamburger joint).

These fighters, fight for money. If not for immediate big money, it's for big money down the line. Otherwise, the risk exceeds the rewards in time. While you're young, you take the risk. If you're not so successful, you get out. It's a very quick game and a very dangerous game. All played for the money!
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:no: :prof: My last words on this side of the topic: You clearly don't understand fighters, if you think ALL fighters do it ONLY for the money. For instance, that doesn't explain amateur fighters at all, and lots of amateurs have no intrest in going pro.

If ALL fighters ONLY did it for the money, there would be no UFC. Everybody would be in Boxing, because THAT is where the BIG money is.

I know what my motives were for fighting. The money was secondary, when there was money involved at all. I wanted the challenge. I wanted to test myself. I wanted to be a bad-ass. I liked to fight. I enjoyed the feel of catching someone with a right hook and watching them keel over and kiss the canvas. I never expected to make a million dollars, and didn't really care much about the money. If I had I would have stuck to the officially-sanctioned boxing circuit.

Are there some who are in it entirely for the money? Perhaps. But for most it is about a lot more than just prizes. You just flat-out don't understand fighters, clearly.
 
Goshin said:
This is my point. Animals are not people. Comparing dog-fighting to child molestation is, IMO, ridiculous and shows how upside-down we are as a society.
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Nobody said that Animals are people. However....there are reasons why we don't put people back in the situations that created their crimes. I'm all for giving people, including some minor forms of child molestation second chances. However, what Vick did to those dogs was obscene and although he should be given a second shot at his life, he should never be put in a situation in which he could do harm to dogs ever again.
 
disneydude said:
Nobody said that Animals are people. However....there are reasons why we don't put people back in the situations that created their crimes. I'm all for giving people, including some minor forms of child molestation second chances. However, what Vick did to those dogs was obscene and although he should be given a second shot at his life, he should never be put in a situation in which he could do harm to dogs ever again.
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WHAT!!!!!

You mean you'd give a child molester a second chance at an actual child (an impressionable and developing human being), but you wouldn't give Vick a second chance with a freaking DOG!!!

That's just straight bananas!
 
disneydude said:
Nobody said that Animals are people. However....there are reasons why we don't put people back in the situations that created their crimes. I'm all for giving people, including some minor forms of child molestation second chances. However, what Vick did to those dogs was obscene and although he should be given a second shot at his life, he should never be put in a situation in which he could do harm to dogs ever again.
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"Minor" forms of child molestation? :shock: What could that possibly be? No perv who's ever acted on his attraction to children should ever be allowed around children ever again.
 
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Hancock said:
I have no idea what your last question is asking!
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The choice to dogs in a dog fighting ring is to fight or die. Do you think those are the two choice that go through an MMA fighter's head?

Hancock said:
First of all, you of all people should already know that just because you're 18 years old, that does NOT make you sound of mind. Besides, when you really examine the human species, who if any of us are really "sound of mind"... Human beings live by the unrelenting theme of veritable contradiction.

So when an MMA fighter gets into the ring, do you really think that he has completely and rationally thought things out? Alternatively, perhaps he's just tossing the dice in hopes that he will get lucky. Based upon his self-believed skills and his possible prior successful triumphant fight record, he takes an educated guess and gambles that he will win. Most MMA fighters in particular, if given money NOT to fight, would prefer NOT to fight. It's the money that they're after, not the glory! It most certainly is not the glory, because the risk of getting your clock cleaned is NOT worth all the glory in the world...

Let's not forget, people eat animals! In some countries people eat dogs, cats, and chickens. I would much prefer that a dog, a cat, or perhaps a chicken lose its life, as opposed to another human being becoming injured. When that MMA fighter gets into the ring, has he really thought the situation out completely? Has he really been that rational human being? I think NOT!

He has not considered the possibility of suffering trauma to the brain. Enough trauma will render anyone brain dead. Minor trauma over extended periods of time can cause permanent damage, as well... ie Muhammed Ali.

I personally would order the killing of millions of dogs, if I could save the life, limb, or quality of life for just one human being.

PS.

Where did you get the idea that anybody can find a job?

People are now lining up by the hundreds just to work for Walmart and Burger King!
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As for your ridiculous line of reasoning that rational adults aren't capable of making a decision, I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask for proof. I have US law, centuries of tradition and psychological evaluations on my side. What do you have?

I also have no problem killing animals, even dogs for food. What I do have a problem with is torturing them to death for entertainment. I am also completely convinced that anyone engaged in said torture cannot be rehabilitated.
 
jambalaya said:
I think he should able to have a dog. It's not like if he buys a collie puppy he is going to train it to fight. What he did before was to train traditional fighting dogs to fight. I know it may be a shocker to you but he probably loves dogs. Get over it people.
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Really? The man who loves dogs fought them to death? Oh, please do explain your logic on this one.
 
Late to the thread but my choice as a dog owner, is NO WAY! He gave up that privilege.


j-mac
 
Goshin said:
:no: :prof: My last words on this side of the topic: You clearly don't understand fighters, if you think ALL fighters do it ONLY for the money. For instance, that doesn't explain amateur fighters at all, and lots of amateurs have no intrest in going pro.

If ALL fighters ONLY did it for the money, there would be no UFC. Everybody would be in Boxing, because THAT is where the BIG money is.

I know what my motives were for fighting. The money was secondary, when there was money involved at all. I wanted the challenge. I wanted to test myself. I wanted to be a bad-ass. I liked to fight. I enjoyed the feel of catching someone with a right hook and watching them keel over and kiss the canvas. I never expected to make a million dollars, and didn't really care much about the money. If I had I would have stuck to the officially-sanctioned boxing circuit.

Are there some who are in it entirely for the money? Perhaps. But for most it is about a lot more than just prizes. You just flat-out don't understand fighters, clearly.
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Hey there Buddy!

Believe it or not, we're on the same side. Yes, people do have egos and want to have them embellished. There have been people who have quit promising careers, just to join the MMA. However, the people who quit those careers all did the math, first. They felt that they were excellent at some form of fighting and all they had to do was to get their ground game together, and they could make a mint in the UFC. OR- All they had to do was to get the boxing skills together, and they could make a mint in the UFC.

Haven't you heard this story like about a thousand times already!

Yes! You're right! Amateur fighters are usually young fighters who dream of becoming pro one day. There are amateur fighters who got into it, just for the training and the love of the sport who do other things professionally. Most amateurs, don't remain amateurs for too long because there's no reward in it. Even if you're good, everybody gets their clock clean at least once. Getting your clock cleaned that one time is usually a wake up call for the wise. Some just can't believe it and they want to schedule a bunch of fights as soon as possible. The very next time, that second time that they get their clock cleaned is usually the final wake up call and you begin to see a lack of that high level of enthusiasm, they once had. The scheduling of fights are one thing but the actual training is another, suddenly they don't want to put in the work anymore. Eventually, they just stop showing up.

Amateurs are usually soon to be professionals, if they're serious. If they get their clocks clean, then so what? They just keep training and getting better. They are tenacious and relentless. Why? They feel that they have an innate edge. They feel that deep down inside, they can beat most people. Afterall, they've most probably been bullies and are used to being winners, anyway. That or they've always known they could knock just about anybody out with their right hand. They have that magic somewhere! They're Not going to college and were lucky if they just made it out of high school. I've never heard any real fighter say that money wasn't in their plan somewhere down the line.

I've heard many say that they'll be glad if and when they could get out of the fight game...

Many fighters have felt trapped and they've wanted OUT! They would say things like, "Ok after this next fight, I want to fight so and so...That way after fighting so and so, and we win, we could schedule a fight with SOME BIG NAME and I could get paid and get out!"
 
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