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House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

He normally does. However, he is out of my immediate control so who knows what the boy's gotten himself into at this point.

IF he is well trained, he knows to stay out of trouble.
And I suspect the Marines have trained him well.
What might be questionable is how well he has been trained by his domestic supervisor...
 
He normally does. However, he is out of my immediate control so who knows what the boy's gotten himself into at this point.

Well, he IS just a hunka burnin love, so you never know, do you?
 
Well, he IS just a hunka burnin love, so you never know, do you?
Possibly, it's not cause of his leadership skills that his men (and women) follow behind him... :mrgreen:
 
IF he is well trained, he knows to stay out of trouble.
And I suspect the Marines have trained him well.
What might be questionable is how well he has been trained by his domestic supervisor...

Unfair! They've had 18 years to my 4!
 
Unfair! They've had 18 years to my 4!

God willing, the marines will have him for only 2 more years, and he can retire. Then you can play catch up...
But surely you know that the older they are, the harder they learn, something about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.
Does he leave the toilet seat up still?
 
God willing, the marines will have him for only 2 more years, and he can retire. Then you can play catch up...
But surely you know that the older they are, the harder they learn, something about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.
Does he leave the toilet seat up still?

You said "harder" in a thread about gays. IT is going to hurt himself laughing now.
 
God willing, the marines will have him for only 2 more years, and he can retire. Then you can play catch up...
But surely you know that the older they are, the harder they learn, something about an old dog and new tricks comes to mind.
Does he leave the toilet seat up still?

He's getting out in 2, no matter how willing God is. :mrgreen:

And he's actually extremely thoughtful and old fashioned. Always puts the toilet seat down. I actually had to lay down the law when we first started dating that it's quite impractical for him to open the car door for me every time we go out.

Anyway, this isn't the MSgt thread. :lol: Yay Senate!
 
"I'm feeling dizzy. It's all the gayness" - Ricky Bobby.

It was inevitable. Despite the abolishment of DADT, gays in the Army and especially the Marines will keep their sexual celebrations private. Open gays will experience the same thing others experienced during the racial integration years (maybe worse because of the subject). Those that come out will be the object of ridicule within squads and platoons. They will ostricized and they will be left to feel completely alienated. Some will desert or simply commit suicide over the emotional stress. Those that fight back in defense will be met with aggression and fights will ensue. And enough of those fights will lead to deaths. Of course, none of the loudest mouths for gay rights will go near a recruiting station so what do they care? As long as others have to persevere the struggle they can feel good about themselves.

BUT, professionalism will always be the theme of every situation and be the course of the vast majority. Many things such as spousal preferences, SGLI plans, and military legal code will have to be altered to somehow allow what civilians currently refuse to allow in the courts, thereby creating contradictions and seperate systems of acceptance. Forcing the military to fight the social battle of our civilization (once again) will not change the fact that gays will continue to be the source of ridicule in Hollywood and television and denied civil rights by civilians. So go ahead and enlist openly and go die for your country homosexual. It's your right. But don't think you can come home and get married or share in the same rights the civilian has in the courts by those who want their utopian ideals to be a matter for others to deal with. Forcing an organization that has no choice but to follow orders is easy and cowardly when considering that civilians, by choice, choose to legally deny homosexuals the rights everybody else has. But from women to blacks, they have always looked to the military to define their paths haven't they? Here we go again.
 
:darthgunny Perhaps now we know why Obama gave into the Bush tax cuts?


Hey babe. Headed to the airport.

Don't try to appease me, he's still a traitor.

Wondered why you were even on. Uh...no need to be reading any of the previous pages on this thread. At all.
 
So, does it look like DADT will be repealed by the end of today?
 
Your corroborative website gave old info on a situation that has rapidly evolved. Due to my family situation, I have seen firsthand the situation for gays in this country since the 70's. 11 year old information, based on data even older, is not accurate today. Take a look at any tracking poll on gay issues over the last 11 years to show you this.

Therefore, all that you can contribute to this debate is a self-serving anecdotal testimony as to your personal relationship with gays.

Well, all I can tell you is that I have a transgender sibling MTF. I live in the San Francisco area. I have most probably just as many gay friends, as I do straights. I love all of them!

You would think that gays would be safe in San Francisco. They are NOT! This goes double for our transgender community. Most of my friends are all beautiful people. I would hate for them to join the military, only to be attacked and have their futures railroaded.
 
Don't try to appease me, he's still a traitor.

Wondered why you were even on. Uh...no need to be reading any of the previous pages on this thread. At all.

UH oh some domestic non-tranquility.:lamo
 
"I'm feeling dizzy. It's all the gayness" - Ricky Bobby.

It was inevitable. Despite the abolishment of DADT, gays in the Army and especially the Marines will keep their sexual celebrations private. Open gays will experience the same thing others experienced during the racial integration years (maybe worse because of the subject). Those that come out will be the object of ridicule within squads and platoons. They will ostricized and they will be left to feel completely alienated. Some will desert or simply commit suicide over the emotional stress. Those that fight back in defense will be met with aggression and fights will ensue. And enough of those fights will lead to deaths. Of course, none of the loudest mouths for gay rights will go near a recruiting station so what do they care? As long as others have to persevere the struggle they can feel good about themselves.

BUT, professionalism will always be the theme of every situation and be the course of the vast majority. Many things such as spousal preferences, SGLI plans, and military legal code will have to be altered to somehow allow what civilians currently refuse to allow in the courts, thereby creating contradictions and seperate systems of acceptance. Forcing the military to fight the social battle of our civilization (once again) will not change the fact that gays will continue to be the source of ridicule in Hollywood and television and denied civil rights by civilians. So go ahead and enlist openly and go die for your country homosexual. It's your right. But don't think you can come home and get married or share in the same rights the civilian has in the courts by those who want their utopian ideals to be a matter for others to deal with. Forcing an organization that has no choice but to follow orders is easy and cowardly when considering that civilians, by choice, choose to legally deny homosexuals the rights everybody else has. But from women to blacks, they have always looked to the military to define their paths haven't they? Here we go again.

Having been in long enough to hear some first person accounts from those days, I seriously doubt it will be as bad as racial integration.

Alot of those changes you mention really are not going to have to happen right away. With DOMA in place, most of that can be handled in the same way as civilian society does. In fact, this does not force the military to give any more rights to gays than the civilian word does. All it really does is say that gays do not have to hide their orientation, which is something that is true already in the entire rest of the country.
 
"I'm feeling dizzy. It's all the gayness" - Ricky Bobby.

It was inevitable. Despite the abolishment of DADT, gays in the Army and especially the Marines will keep their sexual celebrations private. Open gays will experience the same thing others experienced during the racial integration years (maybe worse because of the subject). Those that come out will be the object of ridicule within squads and platoons. They will ostricized and they will be left to feel completely alienated. Some will desert or simply commit suicide over the emotional stress. Those that fight back in defense will be met with aggression and fights will ensue. And enough of those fights will lead to deaths. Of course, none of the loudest mouths for gay rights will go near a recruiting station so what do they care? As long as others have to persevere the struggle they can feel good about themselves.

I still maintain that very, very few will come out publically. At least in the Marine Corps and Army. Maybe to a close friend or two, but not to their unit or CO. It's enough for me that the can still serve even if outed.

"BUT, professionalism will always be the theme of every situation and be the course of the vast majority. Many things such as spousal preferences, SGLI plans, and military legal code will have to be altered to somehow allow what civilians currently refuse to allow in the courts, thereby creating contradictions and seperate systems of acceptance. Forcing the military to fight the social battle of our civilization (once again) will not change the fact that gays will continue to be the source of ridicule in Hollywood and television and denied civil rights by civilians. So go ahead and enlist openly and go die for your country homosexual. It's your right. But don't think you can come home and get married or share in the same rights the civilian has in the courts by those who want their utopian ideals to be a matter for others to deal with. Forcing an organization that has no choice but to follow orders is easy and cowardly when considering that civilians, by choice, choose to legally deny homosexuals the rights everybody else has. But from women to blacks, they have always looked to the military to define their paths haven't they? Here we go again.

It might be cowardly but it's also a good stepping stone for getting the rest of the country to change. Didn't the military desegregate blacks before the rest of the country?
 
So, does it look like DADT will be repealed by the end of today?

It's as good as repealed. The votes are there, Obama will still have to sign it. I've read that there's a 60 day implementation delay.
 
So, does it look like DADT will be repealed by the end of today?

No. The bill won't become law until Obama signs it, and then some things have to happen. From the bill:

a) Comprehensive Review on the Implementation of a Repeal of 10 U.S.C. 654-

(1) IN GENERAL- On March 2, 2010, the Secretary of Defense issued a memorandum directing the Comprehensive Review on the Implementation of a Repeal of 10 U.S.C. 654 (section 654 of title 10, United States Code).

(2) OBJECTIVES AND SCOPE OF REVIEW- The Terms of Reference accompanying the Secretary's memorandum established the following objectives and scope of the ordered review:

(A) Determine any impacts to military readiness, military effectiveness and unit cohesion, recruiting/retention, and family readiness that may result from repeal of the law and recommend any actions that should be taken in light of such impacts.

(B) Determine leadership, guidance, and training on standards of conduct and new policies.

(C) Determine appropriate changes to existing policies and regulations, including but not limited to issues regarding personnel management, leadership and training, facilities, investigations, and benefits.

(D) Recommend appropriate changes (if any) to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

(E) Monitor and evaluate existing legislative proposals to repeal 10 U.S.C. 654 and proposals that may be introduced in the Congress during the period of the review.

(F) Assure appropriate ways to monitor the workforce climate and military effectiveness that support successful follow-through on implementation.

(G) Evaluate the issues raised in ongoing litigation involving 10 U.S.C. 654.

(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (f) shall take effect 60 days after the date on which the last of the following occurs:

(1) The Secretary of Defense has received the report required by the memorandum of the Secretary referred to in subsection (a).

(2) The President transmits to the congressional defense committees a written certification, signed by the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stating each of the following:

(A) That the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have considered the recommendations contained in the report and the report's proposed plan of action.

(B) That the Department of Defense has prepared the necessary policies and regulations to exercise the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f).

(C) That the implementation of necessary policies and regulations pursuant to the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f) is consistent with the standards of military readiness, military effectiveness, unit cohesion, and recruiting and retention of the Armed Forces.

Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Basically, the military has a grace period to get things ready for the change.
 
It's as good as repealed. The votes are there, Obama will still have to sign it. I've read that there's a 60 day implementation delay.

Of course there will be the inevitable lawsuits, but I doubt that they will get very far.
 
Therefore, all that you can contribute to this debate is a self-serving anecdotal testimony as to your personal relationship with gays.

Well, all I can tell you is that I have a transgender sibling MTF. I live in the San Francisco area. I have most probably just as many gay friends, as I do straights. I love all of them!

You would think that gays would be safe in San Francisco. They are NOT! This goes double for our transgender community. Most of my friends are all beautiful people. I would hate for them to join the military, only to be attacked and have their futures railroaded.

Transgender is not the same thing as homosexual. Quite different in fact.
 
"I'm feeling dizzy. It's all the gayness" - Ricky Bobby.

It was inevitable. Despite the abolishment of DADT, gays in the Army and especially the Marines will keep their sexual celebrations private. Open gays will experience the same thing others experienced during the racial integration years (maybe worse because of the subject). Those that come out will be the object of ridicule within squads and platoons. They will ostricized and they will be left to feel completely alienated. Some will desert or simply commit suicide over the emotional stress. Those that fight back in defense will be met with aggression and fights will ensue. And enough of those fights will lead to deaths. Of course, none of the loudest mouths for gay rights will go near a recruiting station so what do they care? As long as others have to persevere the struggle they can feel good about themselves.

BUT, professionalism will always be the theme of every situation and be the course of the vast majority. Many things such as spousal preferences, SGLI plans, and military legal code will have to be altered to somehow allow what civilians currently refuse to allow in the courts, thereby creating contradictions and seperate systems of acceptance. Forcing the military to fight the social battle of our civilization (once again) will not change the fact that gays will continue to be the source of ridicule in Hollywood and television and denied civil rights by civilians. So go ahead and enlist openly and go die for your country homosexual. It's your right. But don't think you can come home and get married or share in the same rights the civilian has in the courts by those who want their utopian ideals to be a matter for others to deal with. Forcing an organization that has no choice but to follow orders is easy and cowardly when considering that civilians, by choice, choose to legally deny homosexuals the rights everybody else has. But from women to blacks, they have always looked to the military to define their paths haven't they? Here we go again.

So what you are saying is that you belive the military is soo unprofessional that they would completely disregard the orders of their commanders and resort to attacking gays in the military.
 
So what you are saying is that you belive the military is soo unprofessional that they would completely disregard the orders of their commanders and resort to attacking gays in the military.

:shrug: Yes. Even I'll say that. The military has a large amount of 18-22 year-old boys. They're not known for their cool tempers. I mean, there's plenty of fights now even though it against "orders." I don't think it will be as bad as all that though.
 
Therefore, all that you can contribute to this debate is a self-serving anecdotal testimony as to your personal relationship with gays.

Well, all I can tell you is that I have a transgender sibling MTF. I live in the San Francisco area. I have most probably just as many gay friends, as I do straights. I love all of them!

You would think that gays would be safe in San Francisco. They are NOT! This goes double for our transgender community. Most of my friends are all beautiful people. I would hate for them to join the military, only to be attacked and have their futures railroaded.

I worked alongside more than a dozen openly gay men and women in the Navy, on an aircraft carrier. Not one of them was ever attacked for being gay in the 4 1/2 years I was aboard. In fact, we didn't have a single case of violence against someone based on sexuality. We had violence against people for other reasons. We even had a guy aboard (in a different department) who sounded just like a woman (trust me, it takes you very by surprise when you hear a woman's voice behind you ask for change for the vending machines and when you turn around to say that you don't have any, you find out that it was a guy that asked you).

And, one very good thing that will come about with the repeal of DADT is that gay servicemembers that are being harassed will not have to hide their harassment in fear that if an investigation is started into the harassment, that they may be found out to be gay and discharged. Sure the person that was harassing them can still be punished, but how much does that mean now to the gay servicemember who was discharged for doing nothing wrong?
 
I worked alongside more than a dozen openly gay men and women in the Navy, on an aircraft carrier. Not one of them was ever attacked for being gay in the 4 1/2 years I was aboard. In fact, we didn't have a single case of violence against someone based on sexuality. We had violence against people for other reasons. We even had a guy aboard (in a different department) who sounded just like a woman (trust me, it takes you very by surprise when you hear a woman's voice behind you ask for change for the vending machines and when you turn around to say that you don't have any, you find out that it was a guy that asked you).

And, one very good thing that will come about with the repeal of DADT is that gay servicemembers that are being harassed will not have to hide their harassment in fear that if an investigation is started into the harassment, that they may be found out to be gay and discharged. Sure the person that was harassing them can still be punished, but how much does that mean now to the gay servicemember who was discharged for doing nothing wrong?

Wow, things really changed since I was in. I knew 2 fairly openly gays, but I doubt there was more than 2 or 3 total at any one time onboard when I served on a carrier(out of 6k people).
 
Wow, things really changed since I was in. I knew 2 fairly openly gays, but I doubt there was more than 2 or 3 total at any one time onboard when I served on a carrier(out of 6k people).

I was a nuke though. I am of the opinion that there are more gays in that field than many other fields in the military, but it is only my opinion. A lot of the gay men were ETs and EMs, the lesbians were both MMs and one of them had a girlfriend on the ship from another department (and there were a couple of girls who were bi). Many of the men sat at the same table during most meals. And the entire boat was pretty sure that the Legal Officer was gay.

Of course, I have also heard stories from my husband about getting hit on while he was on the LHD by sailors. And I did have a Marine on an LHD come out to his buddy on my balcony in Hawaii. That was funny. My sister had brought them home (she wanted to get with the one who wasn't gay). The straight one's reaction was more of "why do all the marines who are gay come out to me".
 
Transgender is not the same thing as homosexual. Quite different in fact.

So how different is a transgender person from a homosexual?
 
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