Page 35 of 36 FirstFirst ... 2533343536 LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 351

Thread: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

  1. #341
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    As I stated, the military is more "in the middle" on this one. They are neither leading nor in the back.
    Well, like I have tried to portray to Redress, nothing is new with this. We neither led nor were in the back when it came to blacks and women. However, leading is exactly what happened in the end. What is it about history that has people afraid to see the obvious? This gay subject is no different.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  2. #342
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Yeah I don't see them doing that. The spousal benefits are really awesome and quite costly for the military. They do have to restrict them somewhat.
    Makes sense, and I can't help but think that it is perfectly reasonable for them to promote more stable households for it's troops, which marriage tends to do in many cases (although sadly, less so than in the past, I think...).
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  3. #343
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    This is an interesting discussion.

    If I'm understanding this right, the military won't allow spousal designations for the partners of gays until the rest of the country (or parts of it?) allows gay marriage, because it would be unfair to all the unmarried couples in the military who currently can't designate their significant (but not officially/legally) other as their beneficiary.

    Question then – Regarding those areas of the country who do allow gay marriage, if some gay couple gets married there, will the military allow them to designate their partners as their beneficiary and spouse?

    Or however the hell that works.

    Edit: I suppose if the military allowed all couples, both married and unmarried, to designate their significant other as their spouse...

    Is there some legal reason for this?
    This has already been a topic of discussion within military legal sectors. This has been a part of the Pentagon's studies to see how best to impliment open gays into the community. I have stated this before, but people are more interested in boasting their allegiance to gay rights above all else.

    Allowing a "dependent," with obvious understanding that significant other is the intention, is the probable course until 50 states (or federal) agree that gays are to be treated as equal in their civilian world as well. I have been trying to state this, but have been met with the gay pride parade who appear to know absolutely everything.
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-19-10 at 09:30 PM.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  4. #344
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This has already been a topic of discussion within military legal sectors. This has been a part of the Pentagon's studies to see how best to implement open gays into the community. I have stated this before, but people are more interested in boasting their allegiance to gay rights above all else.

    Allowing a "dependent," with obvious understanding that significant other is the intention, is the probable course until 50 states (or federal) agree that gays are to be treated as equal in their civilian world as well. I have been trying to state this, but have been met with the gay pride parade who appear to know absolutely everything.
    This seems to make sense, but I won't pretend I understand all the intricacies involved...

    So gays were not previously allowed to designate their partners as “dependents”?
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #345
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Redress never said that and you know it. And you will be behind some of the civilian sectors. And ahead of some.
    Uh hu...

    "I already covered your mistaken beliefs about SSM. The rest is already the case in the civilian world. Sorry, but the world moved past you all." - Post 315

    I got the idea that if only the military gives in then all will be well, just like it is in the civilian sector. But the fact is that once all gays in all branches are bound to the same rules and all branches honor a homosexual's death gratuities towards an obvious "dependent," the civilian sector will still refuse them equal legal rights across the land. Despite their inability to marry, the military will be treating them as spouses in legal code. We will lead, once again. This has always been my point.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  6. #346
    The Almighty
    Kelzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Last Seen
    10-21-17 @ 11:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    13,534

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Uh hu...

    "I already covered your mistaken beliefs about SSM. The rest is already the case in the civilian world. Sorry, but the world moved past you all." - Post 315

    I got the idea that if only the military gives in then all will be well, just like it is in the civilian sector. But the fact is that once all gays in all branches are bound to the same rules and all branches honor a homosexual's death gratuities towards an obvious "dependent," the civilian sector will still refuse them equal legal rights across the land. Despite their inability to marry, the military will be treating them as spouses in legal code. We will lead, once again. This has always been my point.
    How would they do that you think? What's to prevent a gay guy from having 15 dependents in a year?
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

    Serbian proverb

  7. #347
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    This is an interesting response. I called you sensible, and you are saying that I am mistaking sense for a lack of knowledge.
    You stated that my posts are lacking sense. I think I am being clear and I asked you why.

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't see why the military couldn't lead it. They are an organization that can marry people.
    We are going to lead enough, once again. But we are bound by the law of the land. We don't create the laws, civilians do. We don't create social prescription, civilians do. When the judge declared DADT as unconstitutional, it was the Air Force and the Pentagon that jumped at the chance to end it. The Army and the Marine Corps have largely ignored it since 9/11. DADT has been a burden and the numbers, as they correspond to the years, prove it. However, it was the White House that denied our attempt to end it so that they could pass it through Washington and make it "legal." And I suspect, to cling to credit.

    You may as well ask why we can't make it legal for our 19 year old Privates to drink alcohol.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  8. #348
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    This seems to make sense, but I won't pretend I understand all the intricacies involved...

    So gays were not previously allowed to designate their partners as “dependents”?
    No. Everybody has to be able to prove dependency of some sort. Part of the studies was about the legal courses that will be available when DADT goes away. Without the ability to show legal marriage, something else must be done to accomodate the contradiction that civilians are forcing upon the military. They are going into war. And with the ability to declare significant others in the open, we have to figure out how to give them equal rights and benefits in a nation that refuses it in civilian court. None of them are thinking about any of this because "gay pride" trumps all details. This is where this is unlike women and blacks. Before the force, they had legal equality in the civilian world. Gays do not and civilians are expecting us to have a legal standard they currently don't have.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  9. #349
    Meh...
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,010

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    How would they do that you think? What's to prevent a gay guy from having 15 dependents in a year?
    I have no idea. They would have to prove dependency and the procedure is too much of a pain in the ass for it be viewed as haphazard. Aside from living conditions and unit cohesions issues, the legal ramifications to treat homosexuals equal to heterosexuals is a huge hurdle in the study. This is largely because whatever they do, it will contradict national laws. Essentially, unless worded right, the military would break national laws just to treat gays as equal. Very ironic. This is why I have linked the ability for gays to die for the rights of civilians in this nation to not being able to marry by those same spoiled civilians.

    I think it is going to be about wording. Without the ability to be legally "married" we have to be able to acknowledge death benefeciaries and spousal preferences.
    Last edited by MSgt; 12-19-10 at 10:16 PM.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  10. #350
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:51 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,312
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    You don't seem to get this. It is simple enough....

    1) Women: Long after civilians were bitching and moaning about female emancipation, they were denied equality within the military. Civilian frustration with civilian systems were able to declare how ancient the military was. However, eventually, females were Commanding Officers and Generals long before they were CEOs. In the end, it was the civilian world tat proved anbcient and behind. This would be the first time that the military led the way for civilians who continued to exercise their right to look down upon the unacceptable.

    2) Blacks: Long after the Civil War (which was military by the way) to free blacks and after the civil rights marches, they were still denied true equality within the military. Civilian frustrations with civilian systems were able to declare how ancient the military was. However, blacks were leading units and being promoted fairly, long before the civilian Affirmative Action. This would be the second time that the military led the way for civilians who continued to exercise their right to look down upon the unacceptable.
    And this has what to do with today? Standing on past glory is not how our military got to where it is now.

    What exactly is it that you need the civilian sector to look like to once again declare the military as behind? It's the same leftist illusional crap. In the end, gays will be treated better in the military (because it will be forced to) than they are in civilian courts and private business. They will be able to declare dependents with full awareness that "spouse" is the intent. And when the military as a whole follows the same policies and laws, it will be the states of the nation that continue to contradict each other and treat gays as unnacceptable. Once again, the military will lead the way. You should be more appreciative of the military's professionalism to do the right thing rather than fulfilling the same old leftist role of yesterday's social struggles.
    In what way will gays be treated better? This is that righty smug superiority(see, we both can play that game) in action. In no way will gays be treated better than they are now in the civilian world, since in the civilian world they re treated as just folks(with the exception of marriage). You are not leading **** when it comes to gays, but in fact trailing badly behind. Up until now, the military has not been able to handle what college kids in dorms handle.

    Again....so? Save the gay pride crap for someone else. I simply don't care. I wasn't the one that denied gays. Civilian prescription did. This would be the same prescription that refuses them equal legal rights in courts. The military also wasn't the one clinging to DADT a couple months ago when the Air Force and the Pentagon moved to shelve it. But I guess this way, the White House can take their credit. And when the military begins leading the way for gay acceptance, maybe then you will see what history has always told you to expect.
    What "gay pride crap". People are people. That is so controversial. Try and actually discuss without mindless spinning.

    By the way, the Pentagon and the Air Force work for the White House. Maybe you didn't know that. They did not "move to shelve it", they had to by court order, unless you are talking about something I am unaware of, in which case you might want to document it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

Page 35 of 36 FirstFirst ... 2533343536 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •