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Thread: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    So, does it look like DADT will be repealed by the end of today?
    It's as good as repealed. The votes are there, Obama will still have to sign it. I've read that there's a 60 day implementation delay.
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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    So, does it look like DADT will be repealed by the end of today?
    No. The bill won't become law until Obama signs it, and then some things have to happen. From the bill:

    a) Comprehensive Review on the Implementation of a Repeal of 10 U.S.C. 654-

    (1) IN GENERAL- On March 2, 2010, the Secretary of Defense issued a memorandum directing the Comprehensive Review on the Implementation of a Repeal of 10 U.S.C. 654 (section 654 of title 10, United States Code).

    (2) OBJECTIVES AND SCOPE OF REVIEW- The Terms of Reference accompanying the Secretary's memorandum established the following objectives and scope of the ordered review:

    (A) Determine any impacts to military readiness, military effectiveness and unit cohesion, recruiting/retention, and family readiness that may result from repeal of the law and recommend any actions that should be taken in light of such impacts.

    (B) Determine leadership, guidance, and training on standards of conduct and new policies.

    (C) Determine appropriate changes to existing policies and regulations, including but not limited to issues regarding personnel management, leadership and training, facilities, investigations, and benefits.

    (D) Recommend appropriate changes (if any) to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

    (E) Monitor and evaluate existing legislative proposals to repeal 10 U.S.C. 654 and proposals that may be introduced in the Congress during the period of the review.

    (F) Assure appropriate ways to monitor the workforce climate and military effectiveness that support successful follow-through on implementation.

    (G) Evaluate the issues raised in ongoing litigation involving 10 U.S.C. 654.

    (b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (f) shall take effect 60 days after the date on which the last of the following occurs:

    (1) The Secretary of Defense has received the report required by the memorandum of the Secretary referred to in subsection (a).

    (2) The President transmits to the congressional defense committees a written certification, signed by the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stating each of the following:

    (A) That the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have considered the recommendations contained in the report and the report's proposed plan of action.

    (B) That the Department of Defense has prepared the necessary policies and regulations to exercise the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f).

    (C) That the implementation of necessary policies and regulations pursuant to the discretion provided by the amendments made by subsection (f) is consistent with the standards of military readiness, military effectiveness, unit cohesion, and recruiting and retention of the Armed Forces.
    Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

    Basically, the military has a grace period to get things ready for the change.
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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    It's as good as repealed. The votes are there, Obama will still have to sign it. I've read that there's a 60 day implementation delay.
    Of course there will be the inevitable lawsuits, but I doubt that they will get very far.

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hancock View Post
    Therefore, all that you can contribute to this debate is a self-serving anecdotal testimony as to your personal relationship with gays.

    Well, all I can tell you is that I have a transgender sibling MTF. I live in the San Francisco area. I have most probably just as many gay friends, as I do straights. I love all of them!

    You would think that gays would be safe in San Francisco. They are NOT! This goes double for our transgender community. Most of my friends are all beautiful people. I would hate for them to join the military, only to be attacked and have their futures railroaded.
    Transgender is not the same thing as homosexual. Quite different in fact.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    "I'm feeling dizzy. It's all the gayness" - Ricky Bobby.

    It was inevitable. Despite the abolishment of DADT, gays in the Army and especially the Marines will keep their sexual celebrations private. Open gays will experience the same thing others experienced during the racial integration years (maybe worse because of the subject). Those that come out will be the object of ridicule within squads and platoons. They will ostricized and they will be left to feel completely alienated. Some will desert or simply commit suicide over the emotional stress. Those that fight back in defense will be met with aggression and fights will ensue. And enough of those fights will lead to deaths. Of course, none of the loudest mouths for gay rights will go near a recruiting station so what do they care? As long as others have to persevere the struggle they can feel good about themselves.

    BUT, professionalism will always be the theme of every situation and be the course of the vast majority. Many things such as spousal preferences, SGLI plans, and military legal code will have to be altered to somehow allow what civilians currently refuse to allow in the courts, thereby creating contradictions and seperate systems of acceptance. Forcing the military to fight the social battle of our civilization (once again) will not change the fact that gays will continue to be the source of ridicule in Hollywood and television and denied civil rights by civilians. So go ahead and enlist openly and go die for your country homosexual. It's your right. But don't think you can come home and get married or share in the same rights the civilian has in the courts by those who want their utopian ideals to be a matter for others to deal with. Forcing an organization that has no choice but to follow orders is easy and cowardly when considering that civilians, by choice, choose to legally deny homosexuals the rights everybody else has. But from women to blacks, they have always looked to the military to define their paths haven't they? Here we go again.
    So what you are saying is that you belive the military is soo unprofessional that they would completely disregard the orders of their commanders and resort to attacking gays in the military.

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So what you are saying is that you belive the military is soo unprofessional that they would completely disregard the orders of their commanders and resort to attacking gays in the military.
    Yes. Even I'll say that. The military has a large amount of 18-22 year-old boys. They're not known for their cool tempers. I mean, there's plenty of fights now even though it against "orders." I don't think it will be as bad as all that though.
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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hancock View Post
    Therefore, all that you can contribute to this debate is a self-serving anecdotal testimony as to your personal relationship with gays.

    Well, all I can tell you is that I have a transgender sibling MTF. I live in the San Francisco area. I have most probably just as many gay friends, as I do straights. I love all of them!

    You would think that gays would be safe in San Francisco. They are NOT! This goes double for our transgender community. Most of my friends are all beautiful people. I would hate for them to join the military, only to be attacked and have their futures railroaded.
    I worked alongside more than a dozen openly gay men and women in the Navy, on an aircraft carrier. Not one of them was ever attacked for being gay in the 4 1/2 years I was aboard. In fact, we didn't have a single case of violence against someone based on sexuality. We had violence against people for other reasons. We even had a guy aboard (in a different department) who sounded just like a woman (trust me, it takes you very by surprise when you hear a woman's voice behind you ask for change for the vending machines and when you turn around to say that you don't have any, you find out that it was a guy that asked you).

    And, one very good thing that will come about with the repeal of DADT is that gay servicemembers that are being harassed will not have to hide their harassment in fear that if an investigation is started into the harassment, that they may be found out to be gay and discharged. Sure the person that was harassing them can still be punished, but how much does that mean now to the gay servicemember who was discharged for doing nothing wrong?
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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I worked alongside more than a dozen openly gay men and women in the Navy, on an aircraft carrier. Not one of them was ever attacked for being gay in the 4 1/2 years I was aboard. In fact, we didn't have a single case of violence against someone based on sexuality. We had violence against people for other reasons. We even had a guy aboard (in a different department) who sounded just like a woman (trust me, it takes you very by surprise when you hear a woman's voice behind you ask for change for the vending machines and when you turn around to say that you don't have any, you find out that it was a guy that asked you).

    And, one very good thing that will come about with the repeal of DADT is that gay servicemembers that are being harassed will not have to hide their harassment in fear that if an investigation is started into the harassment, that they may be found out to be gay and discharged. Sure the person that was harassing them can still be punished, but how much does that mean now to the gay servicemember who was discharged for doing nothing wrong?
    Wow, things really changed since I was in. I knew 2 fairly openly gays, but I doubt there was more than 2 or 3 total at any one time onboard when I served on a carrier(out of 6k people).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Wow, things really changed since I was in. I knew 2 fairly openly gays, but I doubt there was more than 2 or 3 total at any one time onboard when I served on a carrier(out of 6k people).
    I was a nuke though. I am of the opinion that there are more gays in that field than many other fields in the military, but it is only my opinion. A lot of the gay men were ETs and EMs, the lesbians were both MMs and one of them had a girlfriend on the ship from another department (and there were a couple of girls who were bi). Many of the men sat at the same table during most meals. And the entire boat was pretty sure that the Legal Officer was gay.

    Of course, I have also heard stories from my husband about getting hit on while he was on the LHD by sailors. And I did have a Marine on an LHD come out to his buddy on my balcony in Hawaii. That was funny. My sister had brought them home (she wanted to get with the one who wasn't gay). The straight one's reaction was more of "why do all the marines who are gay come out to me".
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: House approves repeal of 'don't ask, don't tell'(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Transgender is not the same thing as homosexual. Quite different in fact.
    So how different is a transgender person from a homosexual?
    ~ Knowledge is Power ~

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