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Thread: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You mean, like if you want to drive, you have to auto insurance? If you want to drive, you are forced or face penalties. The only difference is you really can't say you won't use health care. but, that is the only real difference. And they compare because if you guess wrong, and get seriously injuried or ill, we all pay for it. You can try and pretend otherwise, but it won't hold. The premise is the same: you have to have insurace so that others don't pay for your irresponsibility.

    Is Auto insurance mandated by the States? or the Federal Government?

    Plus, is Auto insurance meant to protect you, or the other driver you damage?

    Are you required to even own a car?

    What if I only drive on my own property? Do I still need insurance?


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    Last edited by j-mac; 12-20-10 at 06:14 PM.
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    that argument would hold up if we all payed the same, for comparable benefits, as with auto insurance.
    this health care isnt anything of the kind, its all over the spectrum and unfair. therefore unconstitutional.

    you want the same doctors, benefits, etc but want it for a fraction of what I pay, hows that going to work?
    Not following you. Someone wrecking to a new Mercedes will cost more than hitting a 74' ford. Not everyone paying the same. And My insurnace may cost more than yours. So, not sure what you're saying. But what I do know is that if you don't have insurance, and you need care, someone other than you is going to pay for it. It will be all of us.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Is Auto insurance mandated by the States? or the Federal Government?


    j-mac
    Not really important if your objection is just that it is mandated. If you're ok with state mandate but not federal mandate, that's a different argument. In that, you're saying a mandate is fine, but I wnat it to come from the state.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that's a serious misrepresentation. They are having to pay insurance, for when they get it wrong. We pay for a lot of folks who think they won't need insurance, but oops, they were got hurt or ill. Same type of thing brought about mandatory auto insurance.
    No the misrepresentation is couching it in the "good for all" mantra. Taxing me for living is exactly what it is when you boil it down to the bare essence. And there is nothing that you can say to remove that fact.
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really important if your objection is just that it is mandated. If you're ok with state mandate but not federal mandate, that's a different argument. In that, you're saying a mandate is fine, but I wnat it to come from the state.

    Mass can do it? and have, it is a failure, I don't have to live there. Where can I go if this remains as it is?


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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    if you don't have insurance, and you need care, someone other than you is going to pay for it. It will be all of us.
    no kidding

    but the fix required must be a GOOD start

    not just ANY start

    meanwhile, doctors refuse to take on new medicare patients, coast to coast

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/bu.../02health.html

    that's a problem, plato

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Mass can do it? and have, it is a failure, I don't have to live there. Where can I go if this remains as it is?


    j-mac
    It is not exactly the same system, and it's biggest problem is that it isn't large enough. But, a universal payer would be a better system. There is just no will for that today. Sadly. But Mass makes a case that it can't be done effectively on the state level (though I think Hawaii did it better).
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 12-20-10 at 06:26 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules


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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Auto insurance: mandated by the state

    Purpose: to protect yourself - and protect others - and assign cost when damages occur. . . came around after years of dangerous road-activities, frequent accidents - and damages frequently led to lawsuits of various nature.

    Not required if you don't have a vehicle - required, however, when risk of loss passes to the buyer/lessee to negate the cost of risk of loss of the merchant (legal stuff).

    Required for all vehicles that are driven (in most states) - in my state an idle vehicle must be proven not to be used in order to dive out of insurance (reporting mileage to note there is no change, for example) - but said vehicle must still be registered yearly, etc etc.

    Amount of minimal coverage is also state-mandated - some states permit counties to apply different ordinances.

    If you do not have insurance and drive you can be fined - or more - if you are involved or cause an accident while driving.
    But, if you're just mowing your lawn - and your uninsured and undriven car occupies your lot - you cannot be fined for not having insurance.

    I didn't have insurance for a short while (can't remember why) and was in a wreck. I wasn't ticketed for not having insurance - and I had to pay the cost of damages directly to the other insurance company since they had to cover the cost of their own individual's damage. (I was at fault, after all).

    The level of auto-coverage merely affects your overall max or allotted payout for various situations.
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really important if your objection is just that it is mandated.
    actually it is fairly critical. the states have what is called a "General Police Power." they have the authority to make decisions like "you have to purchase auto insurance". probably they could even credibly argue that they have the Constitutional right to enforce a health insurance mandate as well. but the powers of the Federal Government are "Enumerated and Defined". the Feeral Congress does not have the authority to enforce a health insurance mandate.

    If you're ok with state mandate but not federal mandate, that's a different argument. In that, you're saying a mandate is fine, but I wnat it to come from the state.
    i think a mandate in the format that it has been presented (in the context of attempting to turn insurance into a utility) is foolish. however, at least from a State government it would be legal.

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