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Thread: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

  1. #151
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh, "actual knowledge"....I see. So in essence, what you are really saying here is that those who disagree with your interpretation of this are somehow just stupid, don't have knowledge enough to form the "right" opinion of it, eh?

    pretty arrogant Joe.

    j-mac
    I don't pretend I know as much as those who study law, but I suppose you know more than they do. So, there's no reason for you to even consider the possibility that they know more than you and ruled appropriately. And I'm arrogant?




    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #152
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't pretend I know as much as those who study law...
    Sure about that?

    but I suppose you know more than they do.
    Wow, a strawman, coupled with projection....Bravo Joe....

    So, there's no reason for you to even consider the possibility that they know more than you and ruled appropriately.
    So then are you willing to drop your argument because the Judge ruled against this mandate in the law? No, so why do you expect me to roll over when you won't?

    And I'm arrogant?

    Hmmmm....let's see....



    Yes. Also quite VoR like lately.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #153
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    The mandate isn't over yet j. But I haven't spoken on that. I've only said it will play itself out. That would be your strawman I guess. And exactly which one of us attacking the person? I wonder who I could compare you too?


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #154
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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The mandate isn't over yet j.
    Ah, but a serious blow has been dealt. Only two more steps, and the administration seems rather frightened at the prospect.

    But I haven't spoken on that.
    No, ofcourse not. Why would you...That would mean you actually have to address the topic.

    I've only said it will play itself out.
    Well that is just brilliant......You sure you ain't the smartest person in the world?

    That would be your strawman I guess.
    How's that?

    And exactly which one of us attacking the person?
    I'd say we both are to an extent.

    I wonder who I could compare you too?
    I don't know who you have in mind, but I'd bet they are extraordinary individuals.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    J, no matter why I don't address something, you can't pretend to speak for me. The issue with the mandate isn't settled. We'll see what happens.

    Your strawman is you picking a fight that isn't there. I haven't denounced the judge or made a statement concerning law. From the begining I've said the courts will work it out. You throwing out something as if I had denounced the judge is a strawman.

    And j, it isn't me who claims to be an expert at everything. But you can continue to pretned otherwise if it helps you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, no matter why I don't address something, you can't pretend to speak for me. The issue with the mandate isn't settled. We'll see what happens..
    I would never pretend to speak for you old friend....Why won't you address it though?

    Your strawman is you picking a fight that isn't there.
    Where's that? I thought we were discussing it?

    I haven't denounced the judge or made a statement concerning law. From the begining I've said the courts will work it out.
    So you are completely neutral on the subject?

    You throwing out something as if I had denounced the judge is a strawman.
    where'd I do that, can you bring it up?

    And j, it isn't me who claims to be an expert at everything. But you can continue to pretned otherwise if it helps you.
    Glad to hear that you don't really think that you are the be all, end all, but I gotta tell ya Joe, your style of argument sometimes comes off as the opposite. Especially when you constantly use that passive/aggressive style of calling those that disagree with you as uninformed, or ignorant. Think you could address that? Oh, and the VoR comment was directed directly at your little smiley that you have adopted, and use in the context of dismissal of your opponents opinion. It is quite frustrating, and one of the reasons that you argued to unfairly sanction VoR in the past is it not? Deny that and I will know what extent you are subject to mistruth.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    I am completely unusre of the law, so I'll let the courts settle it. As I'm not knowledgable and both arguments make sense to me, I simply think it is best to let it be settled in the courts.

    Now, as for the issue, you can't have insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions and children without having a method for covering that expense. the public option was the beter choice, but absent that, the next option is the mandate. As I keep saying, the general public has a real disconnect ehre, wanting those elelmnts, but not accepting anything that would help cover the cost. But that's another issue.

    As for my style, I merely state things directly, hoping it will eliminate misunderstandings. That has not always been successful, though I sometimes think people misunderstand on purpose. And when I deal with people who throw out silly things like the government is making me eat what I don't want to eat, or who make wild leaps in logic, . . . well, . . . I answer silliness with silliness sometimes.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I am completely unusre of the law, so I'll let the courts settle it. As I'm not knowledgable and both arguments make sense to me, I simply think it is best to let it be settled in the courts.
    And if the courts rule against your preferred choice of a mandate, then you will be fine with that?

    Ok.

    Now, as for the issue, you can't have insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions and children without having a method for covering that expense. the public option was the beter choice, but absent that, the next option is the mandate. As I keep saying, the general public has a real disconnect ehre, wanting those elelmnts, but not accepting anything that would help cover the cost. But that's another issue.
    Yes, it can not be done without straying from constitutional constraints and imposing it.

    As for my style, I merely state things directly, hoping it will eliminate misunderstandings. That has not always been successful, though I sometimes think people misunderstand on purpose. And when I deal with people who throw out silly things like the government is making me eat what I don't want to eat, or who make wild leaps in logic, . . . well, . . . I answer silliness with silliness sometimes.

    Encroachment on liberty is not always plain and clear. sometimes you have to look at the little bites, instead of the whole plate, fore if you don't by the time you see it, it is then too late.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    The only way this becomes legal is if they convert this into a healthcare TAX. As currently structured, it's not constitutional. It's like forcing people to buy Jets season tickets. You can't do it.

    So who here wants to see another item under Medicare and FICA on their checkstub? Say, about 8-10 percent?

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    Re: Health Care Reform Provision Is Unconstitutional, Federal Judge Rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The only way this becomes legal is if they convert this into a healthcare TAX. As currently structured, it's not constitutional. It's like forcing people to buy Jets season tickets. You can't do it.

    So who here wants to see another item under Medicare and FICA on their checkstub? Say, about 8-10 percent?
    thank you,

    and in addition to this extra deduction from our paycheck, we still have to buy our own healthcare out of whats left.
    And I am already paying 8k a year for that, cash, right off the top.

    how this is fair or will somehow "eventually" benefit me too is beyond me.

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