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Thread: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

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    Re: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why does Sudanese separatism give Nigerian rebels a precedent, moreso than Kosovar separatism does? Obviously you must think that living on the same continent as another culture 2,000 miles away must give them some sort of affinity. Otherwise you wouldn't refer to the precedence that it will have on "Africa" and "Africans" as though the entire continent was a monolithic culture.
    I've run across this a few times.

    I think it may have something to do with how the US is set up. We're alot of states within a single country. So many people think of it as, well..one whole country...the states are just there to seperate different areas and make things easier to tell where people are talking about and for legislations. I think it's hard for people to seperate this from places like Africa. Which is a whole bunch of countries on one continent vs a bunch of states within one country.
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    Re: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Why does Sudanese separatism give Nigerian rebels a precedent, moreso than Kosovar separatism does? Obviously you must think that living on the same continent as another culture 2,000 miles away must give them some sort of affinity. Otherwise you wouldn't refer to the precedence that it will have on "Africa" and "Africans" as though the entire continent was a monolithic culture.



    What makes you think that this is any more legitimate than Africans drawing their own new borders? White people can do it better?



    Congratulations, you just solved all of Africa's geopolitical problems. The continent (as a whole since, of course, it is a single entity with common ambitions) just needs to "get its act together." I wonder why no one ever thought of that before.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I've run across this a few times.

    I think it may have something to do with how the US is set up. We're alot of states within a single country. So many people think of it as, well..one whole country...the states are just there to seperate different areas and make things easier to tell where people are talking about and for legislations. I think it's hard for people to seperate this from places like Africa. Which is a whole bunch of countries on one continent vs a bunch of states within one country.
    Given Laila's background I strongly doubt that she believes that Africa is one monolithic culture.

    What she states is a strong possibility. Also the precendence of Southern Sudan (note not Darfur) separating does provide a stronger example for African ethnicities to seek separate countries then does Kosovo, due to proximity, more so then culture. What happens to other African countries and ethnicities is of more importance to more Africans then what happens to a European country. Just as what would happen in Burma or Thailand would be of more importance to those in the region then what happens in Latin America. The fact that it occured closer to "home" is significant
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    Re: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    -- The referendum should be prevented. The colonial borders of Africa cannot be changed nor should the Pandora's box be opened
    I totally disagree, much of the internecine strife is historical and involves the arbitrary borders put into place by the colonials. Many countries in Africa are on the brink of internal collapse - many because of the mineral wealth that different tribes fight over because they are lumped together as "one nation" and thus the owners of particular land feel robbed when others move in and sell rights of use to other nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The repercussions and unintended consequences
    What will probably happen is areas of Africa who believe they should be independent will now fight for it ... This time against their own Governments.
    This is already happening - especially in Southern Sudan, the Christian and Animist elements of Sudan pay a heavy price for being lumped into a country with Arab and black muslims of the North. There is enough local coherence religiously and politically to make a separate Southern Sudan work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    South Sudan's independence will create a precedent and probably a domino effect at worst.
    The DRC could split up to as much as four provinces and the worse example is Nigeria.

    Now Sudan will be split into 'Christian/Muslim' Sudan.
    What is the future for Nigeria? It will ofc eventually go down the 'Christian/Muslim' Nigeria because as we all know the religious groups have alot of fighting
    And war will happen in Nigeria if that attempts to occur over the placement of oil and natural resources which is such a lucrative business. --
    I used to think that before actually living in Nigeria, there's very little appetite for separate Christian / Muslim or independence from Nigeria - even among the Igbo. Everyone I met and talked to agreed they would never go back to the desire for separation - they seemed to have looked into a pit of hell and communally agreed not to do that again. The only real desire for separation comes from the delta peoples whose oil wealth is going elsewhere.

    The AU is pretty much defunct, very few leaders have any real moral or legitimate authority to preach to each other about tribalism / slaughter and how to behave. It is time for many of the groups who are tied by colonial borders to have their independence - I strongly believe over time there will be less bloodshed than the current situation.

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    Re: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Given Laila's background I strongly doubt that she believes that Africa is one monolithic culture.
    I don't really know her background so can only go by what I see. And no offense to anyone around here but most of the time I don't really even look at names when I respond to someone. I just respond to whats said, no matter who says it.
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    Re: Sudan group in legal challenge to independence vote [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Given Laila's background I strongly doubt that she believes that Africa is one monolithic culture.

    What she states is a strong possibility. Also the precendence of Southern Sudan (note not Darfur) separating does provide a stronger example for African ethnicities to seek separate countries then does Kosovo, due to proximity, more so then culture. What happens to other African countries and ethnicities is of more importance to more Africans then what happens to a European country. Just as what would happen in Burma or Thailand would be of more importance to those in the region then what happens in Latin America. The fact that it occured closer to "home" is significant
    Maybe for the IMMEDIATE neighbors of the country it might be significant. Sudan's internal strife can and has spilled over into Chad, and vice versa. But on a continent-wide scale? Absolutely not. Nigeria is 2,000 miles away from the Sudan, Tanzania is 1,400 miles away, and the DRC (although nominally sharing a small land border) has little in common culturally or politically with South Sudan. I can't imagine why any of them would be the slightest bit affected.

    Ultimately I think that these type of arguments boil down to one of two premises: The more charitable explanation is that people believe that, simply because two cultures share a land mass, they must have something in common and look to one another (as opposed to societies elsewhere) for examples. The less charitable is that people believe that, simply because two cultures share a skin color, they must have something in common and look to one another (as opposed to societies elsewhere) for examples.

    The idea that this creates a dangerous precedent doesn't make any sense anyway. If Juba separates from Khartoum and it turns out well, then perhaps it SHOULD serve as an example. And if Juba separates from Khartoum and it turns out badly, then other groups will look at it as an example of what NOT to do.

    Ultimately I don't see it affecting any other countries at all, except maybe Chad. And Chad has a horrendous government itself.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-13-10 at 04:08 AM.
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