• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bernie Sanders' 8 and a Half Hour Speech in Senate

Red Crow said:
Why don't you move to freeging Cuba along with that progressive Bernie Sanders and see how you BOTH like it.

Bernie Sanders should go under a drug test.
Click to expand...

Bernie Sanders should move his socialistic ass to anywhere but here.
I'll be staying. Thanks but no thanks. :)
 
Hatuey said:
You do know that the American military is the perfect example of socialism within a rabidly anti-socialist society right?
Click to expand...
To the contrary, as a member of the military, i would have to describe is more of a fascist form of governing, not socialist.
 
Umm yeah...I'm not spending 8.5 hrs (even broken up) listening to someone that is trying to filibuster something that is going to, in essence, raise taxes on me. He might say that he is for the "working class" or what not but that is bull crap. If it was true then he would do all that he could to get something passed now before the current tax cuts expire in 20 days.
 
the longer socialist sanders' spiel, the less time for dadt, dream, start...

despite all the pretty promises, promises

here, demonstrably, leadership DOES know what it's doing

5 days and counting

no dream, no dadt, no start...

only TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH (and that's IF obama gets his way)

sorry
 
KeeKee said:
Oh so true, How dare an AMERICAN want to be more than a third world worker.

How dare an AMERICAN fight for the right to make a living wage so they can send their kid to college or take them to Disney or even out to a decent resturant.

They should strive to become like the third world worker. They should be happy that companies in those countries provide a room in the back or basement of the building for kids to sleep in after 12-16 or more hours of working, why would they need to go to school, they have a job already.

AMERICANS should strive to not work for a wage that would allow them to save to act on and get patents fot innovations they come up with, just tell the big boss your idea, he/she has the money and can get the patents, create the jobs and collect the money the innovation would make.

Yes AMERICANS should just get over the AMERICAN dreams they think this country was founded on, America would be so much better off as a third world nation.
/scarcasm.
Click to expand...

brave words but sadly the globalization of the American economy is going to bitch slap those who think we can pay someone 78,000 a year to work on a factory line when some equally skilled guy in India or Thailand will do the same job for 15,000 a year.
 
What does "Disney" have to do with a "living wage"?
 
Barbbtx said:
With our unemployment rate, taxes shouldn't be raised on anyone. We need all the jobs we can get.
Click to expand...

I wish it were that simple. But we'll lose even more jobs in the long run if we don't balance the budget, and we cannot do that without rescinding the tax cut for the wealthy, or cutting spending.

So you've got a choice of one of four options to fix our economy in the long run: cut social security, medicare and/or defense, or return taxes to the rate they were before Bush. I don't think any of the first three are likely to happen.
 
KeeKee said:
Oh so true, How dare an AMERICAN want to be more than a third world worker.

How dare an AMERICAN fight for the right to make a living wage so they can send their kid to college or take them to Disney or even out to a decent resturant.

They should strive to become like the third world worker. They should be happy that companies in those countries provide a room in the back or basement of the building for kids to sleep in after 12-16 or more hours of working, why would they need to go to school, they have a job already.

AMERICANS should strive to not work for a wage that would allow them to save to act on and get patents fot innovations they come up with, just tell the big boss your idea, he/she has the money and can get the patents, create the jobs and collect the money the innovation would make.

Yes AMERICANS should just get over the AMERICAN dreams they think this country was founded on, America would be so much better off as a third world nation.
/scarcasm.
Click to expand...

Yes how dare an American Union worker become so lazy that a kid in a sweat shop can work circles around them.

Yes how dare the Unions demand a wage that's higher than any other job in the same field that is non union.

Yes how dare the Unions strong-arm, whichs borders on fascism, any American worker than will not join their union.

Yes how dare the Union put out a sub standard product that the Asian car market out sells American cars because the craftsmanship is lousy out of the Union shops.

Yes how dare the Union be involved in crime and corruption.

Yes how dare the Union take money from all their Union members then support a political party against the paying Union members wishes.

Yes how dare Union thugs beating on elderly and handicapped people at Town Halls.
 
Technically it wasn't really a filibuster because there was no bill awaiting a vote in that session, but it doesn't really matter, he sure showed the Republicans and Democrats in Congress how a real filibuster is done, none of this chickens*** they've been doing for the past decade. The longest I've ever argued is 6 hours; two 3 hour finals exams in a row; Religion and English, and that was NOT easy. Standing up and speaking practically non-stop from 10:30am to 7pm (with two 10 minute breaks, although he still stood right there when two other Senators spoke), without any sort of toilet, lunch or dinner breaks. Furthermore, I was 17, and sitting down, he is 70 and standing up.

I have watched all 8.5 hours. He was somewhat repetitive towards the end, where there was a half hour summary (although it was arguably required, given that he covered so many points). It was a comprehensive critique of not only the Bush tax cuts, but Congressional economic policy in general. Even if you don't agree with him it's still worth a look.

Heavy Duty said:
I would rather **** football size turds than listen to some communist asshole whine and cry why he isnt getting his way. BOO FRICKING HOO.
Click to expand...

That's your choice. I also like how you don't bother to distinguish between Communist (implying communism as it was implemented in the 20th century), and democratic socialism. Very nice indeed.

harmarket said:
I am proud to have a fine American like Bernie Sanders in the United States Senate. Watching and listening to him stand up for the middle class and stand up to the sycophants and toadies of the upper class was courageous and a source of inspiration to keep up the fight against wealth and privilege from taking over even more of American society. There are times when I look at the Rand Paul types, the Sarah Palin types and the Mitch McConnells of this land and I feel it is all going down hill fast and they are greasing the tracks.

A big THANK YOU to Senator Sanders, one truly great American.
Click to expand...

Totally, he's brilliant. Sarah Palin doesn't actually serve in any branch of government, she's more of a conservative Al Gore.

Barbbtx said:
I caught parts of it a couple times. Both times he was talking about the top 400 richest people in the US.
He should have been talking about the lower bracket of millionaires and small manufacturers who will be hit with a tax increase.
You know, the ones who hire and fire people depending on the economy and taxes.
With our unemployment rate, taxes shouldn't be raised on anyone. We need all the jobs we can get.
Click to expand...

He talked about the top 400 people for a little while. He mainly used them as an example of how income inequality is increasing, not of why rich people are evil and don't deserve tax cuts.

He also brought up the point that the millionaires and billionaires can create as much supply as they want, but if the middle/lower classes can't afford the products it won't be economically viable and they'll just accumulate wealth. This was his response to the claim that "millionaires and billionaires will be taxed, and they create jobs, and thus taxing them 4.6% extra will destroy employment". Agree or disagree, he did respond to it.


Barbbtx said:
Ain't socialism great? I'm so proud we have them legislating for us. I was getting pretty damn sick of living in a free country.
Click to expand...

The government is a collection of individuals, just like a business. We long ago decided that tyrannies in the government are unacceptable, and that we should dismantle this system and create a government where the decisions are made by representatives of the people.

Corporations are also tyrannies. In fact, they're the most totalitarian institutions in existence, certainly in America. All decisions are made from the top down, by a few elites, with little regard for the human cost, only the financial cost. The eventual dismantling of these corporations, and a restructuring where the workers control the means of production, is ultimately inevitable, and would, in my opinion, be as great a success for freedom as the same process was to governments a few centuries before.

Hautey said:
You do know that the American military is the perfect example of socialism within a rabidly anti-socialist society right?
Click to expand...

Fascist.

Z3n said:
Bernie Sanders is the man. There was a part where he talked about wages in the automobile industry depreciating 50% and that the gold standard in manufacturing jobs is no an appalling $14 without unionization. Pathetic. America has no good jobs anymore, multi-nationals take all the jobs to various parts of the world where its more 'competitive'. I want livable wage jobs here in America, now. Viva la Bernie!
Click to expand...

Amen. World income inequality is something that we should work toward dismantling, but at a time when the disparity between the United States, China, Bangladesh, etc is so radical, now is not the time.

KeeKee said:
I think it is somewhere around the 4-5 hr mark that he talks on how much more the bailed out banks and investment firms have made since their bailouts.

I left it on one tv so saw bits and pieces of it. Being a CSPAN junkie I usually do though.
Thanks for the link.
Click to expand...

No problem!

Heavy Duty said:
What the idiots on the left fail to realize is that the majority of the jobs that have gone oversea is because of Unions. Companies dont want to have to listen to a bunch of crybabies that think they are entitled to a job. So they move overseas where the labor is cheap and the people willing to do the job and not bitch and whine everytime they dont feel like working.

Its a sad state of America when Union workers are worked under the table by some third world country.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I don't think it's in dispute that workers in developing nations make significantly less than American workers. In Bangladesh (as Sanders pointed out), the minimum wage is 22c an hour, here it's $7.25. 1.2 billion people worldwide live on under a dollar a day.

Now... American workers earn into the tens of thousands of dollars per year. The cost of living here is significantly higher. Real wages have stagnated/declined since the mid 1970s. People are having a hard time to live on two or three jobs in some cases.

Companies are going overseas because people are willing to work for a significantly smaller wage than the American worker. It's got little to do with strikes/safety standards (although these things do take their toll, obviously). Corporations care about... money. If it's cheaper to use Bangladesh workers then they will. America has to choose... the middle class, or making it harder for corporations to go offshore. I choose the middle class.

Chappy said:
I thought the speech as a political act was almost entirely meaningless because it goes nowhere. I respect and admire Bernie Sanders but standing up and speaking for eight plus hours doesn't do anything. Bernie needs to show up with a shorter speech and sixty votes. Lately the speech making is taking too long and he's got at best 53 votes — Bernie can't even muster the whole of the Democratic Senate caucus to his cause. This leads nowhere.
Click to expand...

He doesn't need 60 votes, he only needs to stop the bill getting 60 votes.

Kal'Stang said:
Umm yeah...I'm not spending 8.5 hrs (even broken up) listening to someone that is trying to filibuster something that is going to, in essence, raise taxes on me. He might say that he is for the "working class" or what not but that is bull crap. If it was true then he would do all that he could to get something passed now before the current tax cuts expire in 20 days.
Click to expand...

Watch the speech. He advocates income tax cuts for 98% of the nation, and increasing the estate tax to 55% for 0.33% of the population. He says it was a ridiculous compromise, and I agree...

Heavy Duty said:
Yes how dare an American Union worker become so lazy that a kid in a sweat shop can work circles around them.

Yes how dare the Unions demand a wage that's higher than any other job in the same field that is non union.

Yes how dare the Unions strong-arm, whichs borders on fascism, any American worker than will not join their union.

Yes how dare the Union put out a sub standard product that the Asian car market out sells American cars because the craftsmanship is lousy out of the Union shops.

Yes how dare the Union be involved in crime and corruption.

Yes how dare the Union take money from all their Union members then support a political party against the paying Union members wishes.

Yes how dare Union thugs beating on elderly and handicapped people at Town Halls.
Click to expand...

So you do want the American workforce to get a wage like the 3rd world, dramatically furthering the already absurd income inequality? Cool.
 
I think it's an example of how extreme the left have become that a person who has always been seen as a fringe leftist is their champion. I really don't see how they can come back from that.

Had they kicked out the Green party extremists like the GOP did the Birchers there might be a prayer for them, but they didn't and now they are paying the price for it.
 
stealthy said:
I think it's an example of how extreme the left have become that a person who has always been seen as a fringe leftist is their champion. I really don't see how they can come back from that.

Had they kicked out the Green party extremists like the GOP did the Birchers there might be a prayer for them, but they didn't and now they are paying the price for it.
Click to expand...

It's an example of how extreme the right has become that a program that's been supported by Republican presidents for the past 40 years when unemployment goes above 7.2% is considered a compromise.

The Democrats are doing the exact opposite of what their base wants, and a fairly large segment of the American population at large.
 
Barbbtx said:
I'm glad you brought that up. I'm damn sick of the military fighting for my freedoms that I'm sick of anyway.
Click to expand...

Actually its called Operation Iraqi Freedom. I can't even remember the last time the U.S. military fought a war where our freedom was actually at steak. Your tax dollars go to helping foreigners become free, then to helping feed, shelter and educate those foreigners that we set free. And ironically, conservatives have no problem with this, they just don't want to help feed, shelter and educate American citizens.
 
Ocean City said:
Actually its called Operation Iraqi Freedom. I can't even remember the last time the U.S. military fought a war where our freedom was actually at steak. Your tax dollars go to helping foreigners become free, then to helping feed, shelter and educate those foreigners that we set free. And ironically, conservatives have no problem with this, they just don't want to help feed, shelter and educate American citizens.
Click to expand...

That's because we fight wars, before our freedom is at stake. If we wait until our freedom is at stake, we end up with another version of WW2, where we lost 400,000 Americans, because we waited until our very freedom was on the line.
 
Hatuey said:
You do know that the overwhelming majority of the military isn't actually 'fighting' right? It's behind a desk filling out papers? I think you mean 'filling out papers for my freedoms'. However I'm glad you chose to back down from this fight. You're nothing more than a troll anyways. I don't expect you to have any serious commentary on any issues.
Click to expand...

Once again you show your ignorance about the military.

Every role in the military is in support of combat forces. Just because someone is behind a desk doesnt mean they are not on the front line. Their support is critical to those of us that were fighting on the front lines. The ammo that I fired came from someone sitting behind a desk. Without it there is no fighting for anyone's freedom.

So if you want to embarrass yourself everytime you made some idiotic comment about something you had no clue about, you should sit down and shut up before a veteran came along to rub your nose in your own BS.
 
Heavy Duty said:
Companies dont want to have to listen to a bunch of crybabies that think they are entitled to a job.
Click to expand...

I know you were trying to apply this to union workers, but I think it is equally applicable to executives who think they are entitled to multi-million dollar bonuses for reducing the number of olives in salads for airline flights by one.

Maybe instead of heaping such money on executives who make only short term gains to acquire personal bonuses at the cost of long term benefits to the company they'll work at for only six months who will then go panhalding to the government for a bailout, they could instead hire workers at decent wages to foster a viable, reliable work force capable of sustaining itself.

I'm not saying that unions aren't a problem - they can be. But they are only part of the problem, and if we don't address other things, such as executive bonuses, then nothing will get solved.
 
Heavy Duty said:
Once again you show your ignorance about the military.

Every role in the military is in support of combat forces. Just because someone is behind a desk doesnt mean they are not on the front line. Their support is critical to those of us that were fighting on the front lines. The ammo that I fired came from someone sitting behind a desk. Without it there is no fighting for anyone's freedom.

So if you want to embarrass yourself everytime you made some idiotic comment about something you had no clue about, you should sit down and shut up before a veteran came along to rub your nose in your own BS.
Click to expand...

Ah yes the massive military bureaucracy which has been attacked by everyone in and outside the military is the one you think signs for your bullets? Here I'll rub your face in your own bull****:

Gates urges cuts in military bureaucracy | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com

ABILENE, Kan. ? Warring against waste, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Saturday he is ordering a top-to-bottom paring of the military bureaucracy in search of at least $10 billion in annual savings needed to prevent an erosion of U.S. combat power. He took aim at what he called a bloated bureaucracy, wasteful business practices, and too many generals and admirals, and outlined an ambitious plan for reform that's almost certain to stir opposition in the corridors of Congress and Pentagon.

"The Defense Department must take a hard look at every aspect of how it is organized, staffed and operated ? indeed, every aspect of how it does business," he said in a speech at the Eisenhower Presidential Library and Museum in the former commander in chief's hometown. Gates, also a Kansas native, addressed a crowd of about 300 from the steps of the library at a ceremony marking the 65th anniversary of Nazi Germany's surrender in World War II. The library was a fitting setting for Gates to caution against unrestrained military spending. In his farewell address to the nation from the Oval Office in January 1961, President Dwight D. Eisenhower famously warned of the "grave implications" of having built during that war an enormous military establishment and a huge arms industry that could wield undue influence in American society.
Click to expand...

Please save us all the 'veteran' rant as long as you want to pretend that all the paper pushers in the military are actually supporting anyone.
 
Hatuey said:
Ah yes the massive military bureaucracy which has been attacked by everyone in and outside the military is the one you think signs for your bullets? Here I'll rub your face in your own bull****:

Gates urges cuts in military bureaucracy | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com



Please save us all the 'veteran' rant as long as you want to pretend that all the paper pushers in the military are actually supporting anyone.
Click to expand...

Paper pushers aren't the ones who are most involved in the military-industrial-congressional complex, however.

There's a lot of things that our combat servicemen require in support of their operations. That includes logistics, intelligence, and information. That also includes a lot of paperwork to make sure everything gets recorded correctly. A lot of this is done to ensure civilian authority over the military in order to oversee the military's operations.

While the bureaucrcy may need to be trimmed down, I am much more concerned with the proliferation of no-bid contracts politicians dole out to their major contributors. I would much rather have that be tackled and addressed to ensure competition for funds for government contractors than attack servicemen who are just doing the job their commanding officers tell them to do.
 
samsmart said:
I know you were trying to apply this to union workers, but I think it is equally applicable to executives who think they are entitled to multi-million dollar bonuses for reducing the number of olives in salads for airline flights by one.

Maybe instead of heaping such money on executives who make only short term gains to acquire personal bonuses at the cost of long term benefits to the company they'll work at for only six months who will then go panhalding to the government for a bailout, they could instead hire workers at decent wages to foster a viable, reliable work force capable of sustaining itself.

I'm not saying that unions aren't a problem - they can be. But they are only part of the problem, and if we don't address other things, such as executive bonuses, then nothing will get solved.
Click to expand...

A company isn't going to hire workers, that it doesn't need. No matter how much capital a company has, it would be bad business to do so.
 
apdst said:
A company isn't going to hire workers, that it doesn't need. No matter how much capital a company has, it would be bad business to do so.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting it does so. What I'm suggesting it does, however, is give adequate pay to the workers it does need rather than lay them off or reduce their pay in order to increase stock prices in the short term so a smaller number of executives can get a larger amount of money from bonuses.
 
Hatuey said:
Ah yes the massive military bureaucracy which has been attacked by everyone in and outside the military is the one you think signs for your bullets? Here I'll rub your face in your own bull****:

Gates urges cuts in military bureaucracy | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com
Yes your ingonrance is displayed again.



Please save us all the 'veteran' rant as long as you want to pretend that all the paper pushers in the military are actually supporting anyone.
Click to expand...

By now youre over your head you need a straw to breathe through.


Show where this articles states that the role of every soldier is in support of a combat role.

You do know that the overwhelming majority of the military isn't actually 'fighting' right? It's behind a desk filling out papers?
Click to expand...

These are your words right? Or are you going to try the typical liberal stunt by lying and claiming it not what you meant?

Every, EVERY role in the military is in support of a combat role. Until you can find proof otherwise , which you cant, cont making yourself look like an idiot. I am sitting here laughing at your ignorance.

Now if you want to say there is wasteful spending in the military I would have to agree. But thats not what you said. You said that the majority of the troops are behind desks and their jobs were not supporting your freedoms. That is where you made your idiotic and stupid statement about our troops. EVERY soldier in the military is a support role to combat troops. Without combat troops and the people whom support them there are no freedoms nor anyone to fight for them.

So you have been enlightened. Remember next time you want to be a typical liberal military basher because there will always be a vet around to set you straight.
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
That's because we fight wars, before our freedom is at stake. If we wait until our freedom is at stake, we end up with another version of WW2, where we lost 400,000 Americans, because we waited until our very freedom was on the line.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try to use that one in court. I have a suspicion someone might try to shoot me decades from now, so I'm just going to go shoot him immediately and when I get arrested I will tell the judge I shot in self defense, before my life was actually at stake, because I didn't want to wait until my life was actually at stake.
 
Hatuey said:
Ah yes the massive military bureaucracy which has been attacked by everyone in and outside the military is the one you think signs for your bullets? Here I'll rub your face in your own bull****:

Gates urges cuts in military bureaucracy | North America > United States from AllBusiness.com



Please save us all the 'veteran' rant as long as you want to pretend that all the paper pushers in the military are actually supporting anyone.
Click to expand...

Actually, our designs on a small, cheap, privatized military - augmented with private contractors - is eating a huge chunk of the military budget. This from page 4 of the Congressional Research Service report, Department of Defense Contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan: Background and Analysis

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/128824.pdf

"According to DOD, as of March 31, 2009, there were 242,657 DOD contractor personnel in the CENTCOM AOR compared to approximately 282,000 uniformed personnel in the region who are supporting operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Contractors made up approximately 46% of DOD’s combined contractor and uniformed personnel workforce in the CENTCOM AOR, representing a .86-1 ratio between contractors and uniformed personnel."

Contractor deaths are also starting to exceed military deaths. Anyway, that's a ton o' cash. War has become waaay too profitable, imo.
 
Barbbtx said:
Bernie Sanders should move his socialistic ass to anywhere but here.
I'll be staying. Thanks but no thanks. :)
Click to expand...

You are most welcome my dear friend. :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom