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Thread: November Deficit Highest on Record

  1. #121
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Reef:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-m...new-level.html

    The article in question basically proves the stimulus replaced the decline of state and local spending causing aggregate demand to slightly increase. What hacks either don't realize or dishonestly cover up is without the increase in federal spending to replace the drop in state, net aggregate demand would have dropped like a rock. The stimulus IMO failed to stimulate. What the stimulus did as the article shows was prevent a stomach wrenching decline in GDP.
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly
    Which is exceptionally vague and tells us nothing of any value whatsoever. Furthermore, if weren't a giant hack, you'd notice that Obama has signed into law exceptionally pro-business laws that make Bush's pro-business legislation look cute.
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly. Had Obama put the amount he spent on a stimulus into tax cuts and cut spending we wouldn't be in this mess today.
    sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus. We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits. The historical record simply does not support your claims. In fact, it screams loudly against them.
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

    It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
    With all the lies we do not know what the job growth was if any. It had little if any affect on unemployment or the economy unless of course you believe the lies of Obama

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus. We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits. The historical record simply does not support your claims. In fact, it screams loudly against them.
    When Clinton took office he implemented that high tax rate and that gave us a GOP Congress in 1994 elections. The GOP Congress then began repealing the Clinton tax increases and that stimulated economic growth. Keep re-writing history and hijacking this thread which is about the Nov. Deficit being the highest on record. Don't blame you from wanting to divert from the mess Obama has created.

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    We need a new industry. Housing got us out of the 2001 recession. Massive defense spending got us out of some of the recent weaker ones. The internet was responsible for huge growth. The problem is we don't have another industry.

    But that said, that alone won't do it. What ignorant hacks fail to realize is that the last two decades of growth are artificial. Take away the growth fed by over use of leverage and we are facing the chance of real low growth. A real ugly fact many people either can't see or refuse to is that we are really in for slow growth for the next decade barring the resumption of over use of leverage.
    I have heard that we are in for slow growth and recovery over the next decade or more. A new industry sounds promising, although I am not convinced in the least that government regulated green technology is the answer. Energy wise, a resurgence in building nuclear power plants could only help, if we loosen the regulation.

    Could you explain what you mean by leverage and how the over use of leverage fuels growth?

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Which is exceptionally vague and tells us nothing of any value whatsoever. Furthermore, if weren't a giant hack, you'd notice that Obama has signed into law exceptionally pro-business laws that make Bush's pro-business legislation look cute.
    Calling me a hack doesn't help your argument nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic.

  8. #128
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    sadly, the facts do not support this boast. When Clinton had higher tax rates, the economy created 22 million new jobs and we had a government surplus.
    Clinton also had the internet. And wasn't waging two occupations at the same time. You cannot ignore those impacts.

    We lowered taxes under Bush and ended up with virtually no job creation for the decade and record deficits.
    But Bush also saw the rise of China and India as real economy powers capable of mass outsourcing of US workers. Don't be like Conservative who dumbs down arguments to the point where they have no value whatsoever. Economics is never that simple. There are always a huge number of factors that go into the outcome.

    The historical record simply does not support your claims.
    The historical record is far more complex then you or him make it out to be.
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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    I have heard that we are in for slow growth and recovery over the next decade or more.
    That's what my company is projecting. I won't give you the name, but the firm is huge.

    A new industry sounds promising, although I am not convinced in the least that government regulated green technology is the answer. Energy wise, a resurgence in building nuclear power plants could only help, if we loosen the regulation.
    Nuclear is too slow. It takes on average 10 years to get a plant running and it's arguably the most subsidized power source we have. Furthermore, the US doesn't have technological superiority over others such as Russia, France and Japan. As for renewable, I think that's not it as the US is at least a decade behind China and at least 15 behind the Dutch. While we'll eventually catch up even if it means reverse engineering their products, it won't be the industry to get us out this rut.

    The rising in housing basically pulled the country out of 2001 recession. That's partially why California is so screwed. The boom in housing caused California to go from a deep recession to economic growth quickly. Florida as well. There just isn't a replacement industry right now. To say the least, I'm pessimistic overall.

    Could you explain what you mean by leverage and how the over use of leverage fuels growth?
    Leverage is a fancy way of utilizing debt. Debt can be a useful tool. Anyone who's bought a house knows that. And companies can fuel research that produces blockbusters via debt. Lehman brothers generated large returns partially because they relied heavily upon 3 month commercial paper. Debt basically allows over consumption, which isn't inherently bad if that consumption can in turn generate returns for the debt user. The problem is when debt is used for over consumption that doesn't bear fruit down the line.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Calling me a hack doesn't help your argument nor does it have anything to do with the thread topic.
    It merely points out the obvious inherent nature of your personality in refusing to acknowledge anything that runs contrary to your opinions, even if they are solid facts.

    You again demonstrate you have no solutions.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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