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Thread: November Deficit Highest on Record

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    No. The money was injected into the economy. It shows up in the GDP calculation. It was spent to preserve and create jobs. It is a fact.
    The money was payback to unions not to save jobs.

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    during recovery summer (LOL!) obama cut FOOD STAMPS by 26 billion to shore up teacher hiring

    problem is, according to the grey lady (nyt). districts coast to coast took the bailouts and largely shored up their obese yet still underfed pensions

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/18/bu...8teachers.html

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    You do realize that States have to pay for their pensions, for all the workers who put in 20 years, and that the costs are rising sucking budget and that those were not made illegal, don't you?
    Your point is well taken. But here in Illinois those obligations are treated somewhere between theory and fantasy. We are billions in the red on those pension funds.

    (did i say Illinois? more accurately the disaster is the making of the politicians in our little Chicago machine....)



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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Then explain to me why BLS says that there have been a net job loss of 4.3 million? Stop buying the Obama rhetoric and get the facts from the non partisan sources. Obama will make a fool out of you.
    The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.
    Seems you have very low expectations. The fact remains this wasn't how the stimulus was sold or its intent. Suggest you go back and research the purpose of the stimulus and then tell me where those "shovel" ready jobs were? You bought a bill of goods and continue to buy the rhetoric. How many lies do you have to be told before you stop believing the rhetoric? Unemployment was supposed to not exceed 8%. How has that prediction worked out?

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    The economy would have lost many more without the stimulus. If the economy loses 6 million jobs and the stimulus saves and creates 2 million jobs, the total job loss would be 4 million jobs.
    You keep talking jobs created but will not look at the link I posted that says the Obama math was wrong. If the math is wrong we can believe nothing they say so that means you are wrong to.

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy too? I cannot believe that in the face of actual numbers from non partisan sites you still buy what you are told?
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The money was payback to unions not to save jobs.
    Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

    It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Seems you have very low expectations. The fact remains this wasn't how the stimulus was sold or its intent. Suggest you go back and research the purpose of the stimulus and then tell me where those "shovel" ready jobs were? You bought a bill of goods and continue to buy the rhetoric. How many lies do you have to be told before you stop believing the rhetoric? Unemployment was supposed to not exceed 8%. How has that prediction worked out?
    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You keep talking jobs created but will not look at the link I posted that says the Obama math was wrong. If the math is wrong we can believe nothing they say so that means you are wrong to.
    I think they made promises they couldn't guarantee. They have no ****ing idea how bad it would get. I don't think economists or the folks on Wall Street ****ing know. It is all a big guess. So Obama sold the stimulus with economists' numbers that turned out bogus, plus the fact that all the money he asked for really didn't create that many jobs and ameliorate a much worse employment situation than expected. Fine. Now what?

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
    We need a new industry. Housing got us out of the 2001 recession. Massive defense spending got us out of some of the recent weaker ones. The internet was responsible for huge growth. The problem is we don't have another industry.

    But that said, that alone won't do it. What ignorant hacks fail to realize is that the last two decades of growth are artificial. Take away the growth fed by over use of leverage and we are facing the chance of real low growth. A real ugly fact many people either can't see or refuse to is that we are really in for slow growth for the next decade barring the resumption of over use of leverage.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: November Deficit Highest on Record

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    Ok, I will say that that was the stated purpose of the stimulus and I think it did have an effect, but I also believe they are lying about the numbers (as ptif219 points out) and am very disappointed in the amount of money spent with respect to the number of jobs actually saved or created. It is no surprise that the money was predominantly steered to Democratic constituencies.

    It is one hell of a pickle. Economy down, real high unemployment, must pay unemployment insurance to keep people off the street, right? Lending frozen, investment down, housing a disaster with high foreclosure rate and languid new and used home markets, demand dropping, CC debt rising, super high deficit, states struggling to balance.... What combination of things needs to happen to restart growth?
    A pro growth, pro business economic policy would turn this around quickly. Had Obama put the amount he spent on a stimulus into tax cuts and cut spending we wouldn't be in this mess today.

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