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'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

Conservative said:
At the rate this country is going it is going to be a long, long time before Democratic liberals get back into power so don't hold your breath.

November Deficit was a historical deficit.
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That is what people where saying about conservatives 2 years ago...
 
Conservative said:
At the rate this country is going it is going to be a long, long time before Democratic liberals get back into power so don't hold your breath.

November Deficit was a historical deficit.
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I've voted for repubs in all available categories (except one that I think was a libertarian, running for state AG, or something) in the last two elections, mainly because I preferred their ideas on economy/finances/etc.

I did not vote for them so they could continue this asinine DADT ****.

It was my understanding that it was being put off until the military could determine the best way to make the switch, which makes some sense.

Not indefinitely, which makes ZERO sense.
 
Redress said:
That is what people where saying about conservatives 2 years ago...
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Yep, that was before another 4 million people lost their jobs and 3 trillion added to the debt. That was when the hope and change message was bought but now the people are seeing the results. It is called "buyers' remorse" in a big way.
 
The Mark said:
I've voted for repubs in all available categories (except one that I think was a libertarian, running for state AG, or something) in the last two elections, mainly because I preferred their ideas on economy/finances/etc.

I did not vote for them so they could continue this asinine DADT ****.

It was my understanding that it was being put off until the military could determine the best way to make the switch, which makes some sense.

Not indefinitely, which makes ZERO sense.
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Anyone that voted simply because of DADT has a real problem. We have a lot more serious problems, 16+ million unemployed, a debt that is approaching 100% of GDP, and very slow economic growth that is making more and more people dependent on the govt. All these affect the people more that DADT.
 
Redress said:
So you can't show where any one said it. Thank you.

Moving along now....
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It was an argument made in another on line forum. I will admit that it was not a very prevalent or popular opinion, even among the left wingers.

Okay, moving on now...
 
Redress said:
That is not the rule actually. Here it is: http://www.sldn.org/page/-/Website/The%20Law/The%20Law%20-%20Statute.pdf


Number 2 is the stickler, and covers a broad range of things that are considered a "tell", such as being seen holding hands with another person of the same gender, sending romantic emails to some one of the same sex and having some one read it over your shoulder unknown to you, and so on.

The rest of your post is just nonsense that no one is disputing, except for adding a third option: attempt to change the law.
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Thanks for the link, and I agree there are more than one rule - specifically, 2 rules.

And third, doesn't change a thing. Sure there can be an attempt at anything. When I served, there was no protection - if a person was thought to be homosexual, they were just discharged period. I was asked up front by my recruiter and while my Sgt. Cole in basic might have called all of my class fairies and ****shaggers, none of us to my knowledge were gay. DADT was actually MORE than when I was in. Maybe that's why I don't see a problem with it.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
So he didn't say that his grandmothers racism was typical of white people?

















Yet you are almost silent on it, except when prodded. Well kudos for you on this. :thumbs:






So he's only a little bit of a bigot.



So when you state you speak out against any and all bigotry, that was the actual lie in our discussion, not that what I posted was dishonest.


Good, I am glad we cleared that up. :thumbs:
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Did you actually listen to any of your clips.....LOL....or is it just more of the "Good Rev's" flat out dishonesty?

Glad that we cleared that up......Doh!
 
It really does not matter what side of the issue you are on it is obvious that a repeal of DADT is a dead issue for at least the next 2 years and the good fight will continue to keep it that way after that........We must never agree with the blackmail of our military who are fighting and dying for us.........
 
Redress said:
None of which invalidates what I stated.
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??? It invalidated exactly what I responded to: "More information on the Military Times poll: it starts with questions about sexual harassment by gays, then goes and asks opinions on repealing DADT"

Not true/Invalidated
 
Redress said:
The poll is flawed and self selected among Military Times readers. It is only slightly more valid that some of the polls here at DP. The DoD poll was scientific and had a margin of error of less than 1 %. Trying to use the Military Times poll to refute the DoD poll is silly(which you are not doing, but is being done in this thread).
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There's no need to "refute" anything. The Military Times and DoD poll found the same result on the question of interest. If DADT is repealed, almost a quarter of the military will says it will leave or think about leaving the military sooner than they had planned.

The 2008 Military Times Poll asked a new question that produced jaw-dropping results: “If the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ policy is overturned and gays are allowed to serve openly, how would you respond?” The article emphasized that 71% of respondents said they would continue to serve. But almost 10% said “I would not re-enlist or extend my service,” and 14% said “I would consider not re-enlisting or extending my service.” Only 6% expressed “No Opinion.” Before voting to repeal the law, Section 654, Title 10, members of Congress, and President-elect Barack Obama, ought to do the math.
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DoD Survey Results
Question 81. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed, how, if at all, will your military career plans be affected?
  • I will leave sooner than I had planned: 12.6%
  • I will think about leaving sooner than I had planned: 11.1%
If anything, the DoD results are even more concerning than those from the Military Times.
 
Taylor said:
There's no need to "refute" anything. The Military Times and DoD poll found the same result on the question of interest. If DADT is repealed, almost a quarter of the military will says it will leave or think about leaving the military sooner than they had planned.



DoD Survey Results
Question 81. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed, how, if at all, will your military career plans be affected?
  • I will leave sooner than I had planned: 12.6%
  • I will think about leaving sooner than I had planned: 11.1%
If anything, the DoD results are even more concerning than those from the Military Times.
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Yes, historical example shows these polls are horse**** because every time a country switches to allow homosexuals to serve openly, no noticeable change in retention/recruitment is observed. People answer this way on a poll, but when it actually comes down to it, they just deal with it.

Besides, there are already gay people serving and Gates made sure DADT is effectively dead already, so why are we even still bothering to keep it around?
 
Navy Pride said:
It really does not matter what side of the issue you are on it is obvious that a repeal of DADT is a dead issue for at least the next 2 years and the good fight will continue to keep it that way after that........We must never agree with the blackmail of our military who are fighting and dying for us.........
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Yet....people such as yourself are willing to use the military to impose your views on them despite the fact that not just the majority, but the overwhelming majority of them disagree with your view. Why do you hate the military that much Navy?
 
Conservative said:
Anyone that voted simply because of DADT has a real problem. We have a lot more serious problems, 16+ million unemployed, a debt that is approaching 100% of GDP, and very slow economic growth that is making more and more people dependent on the govt. All these affect the people more than DADT.
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True.

Because of that, IF the Republicans make economic decisions that I agree with, and that I think will improve (or DO improve) the economy, then I am highly likely to vote for them again.

But I still think they should get rid of DADT.

I doubt more than a few people are (or were) likely to vote for someone simply because they say they'll repeal DADT.

I surely didn't.

I'm also wondering if Pres. Obama and/or the Democrats are trying to push any decision on DADT to a later date so they can run on the issue in the next election...
 
Navy Pride said:
It really does not matter what side of the issue you are on it is obvious that a repeal of DADT is a dead issue for at least the next 2 years and the good fight will continue to keep it that way after that........We must never agree with the blackmail of our military who are fighting and dying for us.........
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I cannot stress enough that I think you are completely incorrect in your statement here.

But I can't change your mind, so I won't try - I'll just express my complete disagreement.

Just...No.
 
Taylor said:
There's no need to "refute" anything. The Military Times and DoD poll found the same result on the question of interest. If DADT is repealed, almost a quarter of the military will says it will leave or think about leaving the military sooner than they had planned.



DoD Survey Results
Question 81. If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed, how, if at all, will your military career plans be affected?
  • I will leave sooner than I had planned: 12.6%
  • I will think about leaving sooner than I had planned: 11.1%
If anything, the DoD results are even more concerning than those from the Military Times.
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That is not really a question of interest though. Similar results where found in UK when they considered allowing gays to serve, and they suffered no problems in retention when they did allow gays to serve. It is not a big deal question.
 
Redress said:
That is not really a question of interest though. Similar results where found in UK when they considered allowing gays to serve, and they suffered no problems in retention when they did allow gays to serve. It is not a big deal question.
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It's a question of interest because it's basically the only way these guys can keep their bleeding fingernail hold on this issue they're so clearly in the minority on.
 
Redress said:
That is not really a question of interest though.
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Of course it is.

Redress said:
Similar results where found in UK when they considered allowing gays to serve, and they suffered no problems in retention when they did allow gays to serve. It is not a big deal question.
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No -- no such poll results were found in the UK before they made the transition.
 
Redress said:
That is not really a question of interest though. Similar results where found in UK when they considered allowing gays to serve, and they suffered no problems in retention when they did allow gays to serve. It is not a big deal question.
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It's probably one of those questions that people KNOW will have an effect, so even if they most likely won't leave sooner or think about leaving sooner, they still answer that way cause they're opposed to the change...

You can't possibly tell me with a straight face that people are completely truthfull in all respects when answering a poll.
 
Deuce said:
People answer this way on a poll, but when it actually comes down to it, they just deal with it.
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No, there's no evidence to support that claim.

Deuce said:
Besides, there are already gay people serving and Gates made sure DADT is effectively dead already, so why are we even still bothering to keep it around?
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Oh, I dunno. How much longer are we going to keep Gates around?
 
Redress said:
I can try and dig up the source for this, but an estimated I think 1 million gay soldiers starting with Korea have served in the US military. They did not go back further since data was increasingly hard to get.
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LOL

And 48.6 percent of all statistics are made up.

How could anyone know this?

LOL
 
Taylor said:
Of course it is.


No -- no such poll results were found in the UK before they made the transition.
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So what you're telling me is that American soldiers are uniquely homophobic. Ok.
 
Erod said:
LOL

And 48.6 percent of all statistics are made up.

How could anyone know this?

LOL
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I'm wondering something along those lines myself...

Once DADT and all restrictions on military membership based on sexual preference and the like are removed - How many gay people will it be revealed were and are serving in the military?

More than you think, I'm guessing.
 
Deuce said:
So what you're telling me is that American soldiers are uniquely homophobic. Ok.
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It's possible. I think Americans in general are more homophobic than many areas of the world (but by no means all).

I am wondering, though... No one ever compares the US military to, say, Iran’s military in this area…
 
Deuce said:
So what you're telling me is that American soldiers are uniquely homophobic. Ok.
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What I'm telling you is that there is no evidence for your claim. Feel free to prove me wrong.
 
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