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Thread: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why not leave safegaurds in place, so as to make this an easier transition? Seems like common sense to me. If DADT were left in place, redefined so that it applied to everyone--to protect gay and straight soldiers alike--then the rules would apply to everyone.

    I still don't think this is going to have a happy ending, since DADT is being lifted and not the ban on gays. I think you're all in for a real shock, but I reckon we'll see.
    protect gay and striaght soliders from what? Am I missing something? Just curious.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    protect gay and striaght soliders from what? Am I missing something? Just curious.
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    protect gay and striaght soliders from what? Am I missing something? Just curious.
    Discrimination.

    Look at it like this; if I'm wrong, then no harm was done. If you're wrong, it could get ugly. If it gets ugly, it will have a negative impact on morale discipline and unit cohesion.

    Ever been a member of a unit that serious morale, discipline and unit cohesion problems? I have and it's not pretty. Not the kind of unit that you want to go to the battlefield with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Discrimination.

    Look at it like this; if I'm wrong, then no harm was done. If you're wrong, it could get ugly. If it gets ugly, it will have a negative impact on morale discipline and unit cohesion.

    Ever been a member of a unit that serious morale, discipline and unit cohesion problems? I have and it's not pretty. Not the kind of unit that you want to go to the battlefield with.
    DADT does not, in any way, protect gays from discrimination. In fact, it discriminates against gays in that it gives them extra rules they have to follow that straits do not. You are entirely wrong in describing DADT as protecting gays, just as you are wrong about the repeal bill not removing the ban on gays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Discrimination.

    Look at it like this; if I'm wrong, then no harm was done. If you're wrong, it could get ugly. If it gets ugly, it will have a negative impact on morale discipline and unit cohesion.

    Ever been a member of a unit that serious morale, discipline and unit cohesion problems? I have and it's not pretty. Not the kind of unit that you want to go to the battlefield with.
    that is a great point, what happens if proponents of the repeal are wrong? That is the problem with liberals on every issue, they never look at the possibility or consequences of being wrong on any issue and as you pointed out this could get ugly.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    DADT does not, in any way, protect gays from discrimination.
    Well, actually, it does. It allows gay to serve in the military. It prevents them from being asked, if they're gay.

    In fact, it discriminates against gays in that it gives them extra rules they have to follow that straits do not. You are entirely wrong in describing DADT as protecting gays, just as you are wrong about the repeal bill not removing the ban on gays.
    A total ban on gays in the military isn't discrimination?

    Like I said, with a little adjusting, DADT could be left in place, the ban on gays lifted, at which point, DADT would proteect gay soldiers from being singled out, just like it would protecct straight soldiers from being singled out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Discrimination.

    Look at it like this; if I'm wrong, then no harm was done. If you're wrong, it could get ugly. If it gets ugly, it will have a negative impact on morale discipline and unit cohesion.

    Ever been a member of a unit that serious morale, discipline and unit cohesion problems? I have and it's not pretty. Not the kind of unit that you want to go to the battlefield with.
    We could approach a lot of things like that. Many argued that on racism, read MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. I think he tackles that type of thinking pretty well. Soldiers are even easier than the general populace in some respects, however, as they are accustom to taking orders. If we tell them to behave, the vast majority will, and those who won't? Well, we're all better off without them. being adult, and obeying laws is the sign of a good soldier, and a good citizen and a good person. being unable to control yourself is a sign of a problem.

    But, i do appreciate your answer. I have to run now, but thanks for answering.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    that is a great point, what happens if proponents of the repeal are wrong? That is the problem with liberals on every issue, they never look at the possibility or consequences of being wrong on any issue and as you pointed out this could get ugly.
    Because Liberals never look that far ahead. Most of them aren't ever going to serve in the military, so they don't give a **** if it gets ugly. I believe there's even a faction within the Liberal community that wants things to get ugly. "Make thim mean homophobes pay for their bigotry".

    I think's why we rarely hear--if ever--Liberals say, "...allow gays to serve in the military". But rather, we hear, "...allow gays to serve openly in the military". That smacks of, "in yo' face", kinda bull****.

    It's like gays just being able to serve in the miltiary, without fear of being discharged, for being gay, just isn't enough for them.

    They want that soldier to be able to stand up and say, "I'm gay and proud!". And, when that happens, it's going to cause problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, actually, it does. It allows gay to serve in the military. It prevents them from being asked, if they're gay.

    A total ban on gays in the military isn't discrimination?

    Like I said, with a little adjusting, DADT could be left in place, the ban on gays lifted, at which point, DADT would proteect gay soldiers from being singled out, just like it would protecct straight soldiers from being singled out.
    There are all sorts of rules in the military against discrimination. DADT is not one of them. Nowhere does it say "gays will not be discriminated against. What DADT does do is add a set of discriminatory rules against gays. Discrimination is not protection from discrimination.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We could approach a lot of things like that. Many argued that on racism, read MLK's Letter from a Birmingham Jail. I think he tackles that type of thinking pretty well. Soldiers are even easier than the general populace in some respects, however, as they are accustom to taking orders. If we tell them to behave, the vast majority will, and those who won't? Well, we're all better off without them. being adult, and obeying laws is the sign of a good soldier, and a good citizen and a good person. being unable to control yourself is a sign of a problem.

    But, i do appreciate your answer. I have to run now, but thanks for answering.
    Except, it would damn hard to inact a DADT policy with a black soldier. Obviously that's a dumbassed example. However, DADT could be left in place--with modifications. Are you aware of the race riots that the military experienced for the 20 +/- years after desegregation?

    If we could avoid that kind of blowback, shouldn't we do it? I would like to avoid it. Wouldn't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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