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Thread: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Remember, Jim Crow laws were repealed many decades after they were originally passed. Opinions change. People change. Cultures become more open to this change. Welcome to the 21st century. Most Americans no longer fear homos.
    Jim Crow laws have nothing to do with the military, there are rules to join, don't like the rules, don't enlist.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    This is not true. There are no questions "about sexual harassment by gays" whatsoever.
    Here are the questions from the survey, with a link to the entire survey: http://militarytimes.com/webtools/fi...stionnaire.pdf

    Has a service member of the same gender ever made a romantic or sexual advance toward you?

    What was your reaction to that advance, or to most advances, if there have been
    multiple advances?

    Do you think there are gay men or women in your current unit? (By unit, we mean Air Force squadron, Army company or detachment, Marine company or battery, or Navy department.)

    Did you report this service member's sexual orientation to your chain of command?

    Why didn’t you report it?

    To your knowledge, did your chain of command take any action in response, such as initiate an investigation of that person’s sexual orientation?

    To your knowledge, was that person ever discharged or is that person currently being discharged because of his or her sexual orientation?

    To your knowledge, did your chain of command ever find out that a service member was gay but decline to take any action?
    Not all questions in this chain would be asked, it depends on the answer of previous questions. Those questions precede immediately the next question:
    All in all, do you strongly favor, favor, oppose, or strongly oppose allowing gays
    and lesbians to serve openly in the military?
    The questions leading up to it(you are correct, the phrase "sexual harassment" was not used) would tend to have an impact on the answer to the question on repeal of DADT.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As stated it has been law for 17 years and affects an ALL VOLUNTEER military. No one forces anyone to enlist and if someone doesn't like the policy then don't enlist.
    Just because you volunteer for the military does not mean you give up your right to equal protection. The all volunteer aspect is a red herring.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, how do you know that there weren't any openly gay soldiers in WW2 and that some of those soldiers didn't do very brave and heroic acts?

    Second, it is not that allowing gays to serve openly will somehow make us able to win every war or even a much better fighting force. It is the fact that allowing gays to serve openly will actually be standing by the US ideals of freedom and democracy for all (not just heterosexuals) and it will actually show that the military really is fighting intolerance within its ranks.
    I can try and dig up the source for this, but an estimated I think 1 million gay soldiers starting with Korea have served in the US military. They did not go back further since data was increasingly hard to get.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Here are the questions from the survey, with a link to the entire survey: http://militarytimes.com/webtools/fi...stionnaire.pdf
    That's a different poll than the one one that was linked and to which you originally responded. This one is from 2009 and -- while specifically targeted at DADT and related issues -- doesn't ask the question of interest in the 2008 poll:
    57. If the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is overturned and gays are allowed to serve openly,
    how would you respond? (Check one)
    No response; I would continue to serve—1
    I would consider not re-enlisting or extending my service—2
    I would not re-enlist or extend my service—3
    No opinion—4
    The 2008 poll covered a very broad range of topics, touching on politics, gender, religion and race in addition to DADT.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just because you volunteer for the military does not mean you give up your right to equal protection. The all volunteer aspect is a red herring.
    So is your argument, you feel so strongly that DADT violates someone's civil rights why not file suit and let the courts decide? fact is we have an all volunteer military and no one is being forced to serve thus it doesn't violate any individual rights. If one doesn't like the law then don't enlist.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just because you volunteer for the military does not mean you give up your right to equal protection. The all volunteer aspect is a red herring.
    It means you agree to abide by the oath and the rules of the military. If one of the rules is DADT (and it is) that means a discharge if that rule is broken. You continue to equal protection under the UCMJ. It does not mean you get special treatment for sexual orientation. And you continuing to repeat "red herring" doesn't make it true.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That's a different poll than the one one that was linked and to which you originally responded. This one is from 2009 and -- while specifically targeted at DADT and related issues -- doesn't ask the question of interest in the 2008 poll:


    The 2008 poll covered a very broad range of topics, touching on politics, gender, religion and race in addition to DADT.
    None of which invalidates what I stated. The poll is flawed and self selected among Military Times readers. It is only slightly more valid that some of the polls here at DP. The DoD poll was scientific and had a margin of error of less than 1 %. Trying to use the Military Times poll to refute the DoD poll is silly(which you are not doing, but is being done in this thread).
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So is your argument, you feel so strongly that DADT violates someone's civil rights why not file suit and let the courts decide? fact is we have an all volunteer military and no one is being forced to serve thus it doesn't violate any individual rights. If one doesn't like the law then don't enlist.
    The process is in the courts now, and the first step of that process is finished, with DADT losing in the courts. Repeal by congress would be faster and better, ie the current law and DoD directives are reworded, and the military is given time to prepare for the changes before the law takes effect.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    It means you agree to abide by the oath and the rules of the military. If one of the rules is DADT (and it is) that means a discharge if that rule is broken. You continue to equal protection under the UCMJ. It does not mean you get special treatment for sexual orientation. And you continuing to repeat "red herring" doesn't make it true.
    If you enlist now and violate DADT, you an be discharged and there is nothing wrong with the military discharging you. I know of no one who is saying otherwise. Gay people though have an entirely extra, arbitrary set of rules to what they can and cannot do. That is not equal protection.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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