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'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

Your Star said:
They can't do these things. If they brought a partner to a military function, they would be outed, if they lived with their partner on base, they would be outed, if they got a marriage(in a state that has SSM) they would be outed. Now I'm sure you would agree that this stuff isn't flaunting one's sexuality, now why should a LGBT soldier be discharged because of these things?
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I do get why this is so troubling to you and others, Star, but you have to consider the greater good. You can't expect the military to be as PC as civiian society.
 
Kelzie said:
Well anyone can claim harassment. Most don't.
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Well, most don't now for obvious reasons, but that could change if there's no impediment to making such claims over relatively innocuous behavior.
 
X Factor said:
I do get why this is so troubling to you and others, Star, but you have to consider the greater good. You can't expect the military to be as PC as civiian society.
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So you are perfectly fine with the military discharging someone just because they are dating or married to someone of the same sex outside of their military life?
 
X Factor said:
I do get why this is so troubling to you and others, Star, but you have to consider the greater good. You can't expect the military to be as PC as civiian society.
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It's not PC to think a person should be able to bring their partner to a command event for families. That is called common ****ing sense. Our military can handle those trials and tribulations perfectly well. Unlike some, I and Your Star actually think our military people are not idiots.
 
apdst said:
Not, when it comes to asking a soldier's sexual orientation, hence DADT.
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As I've said, yes there are rules against military members discriminating against someone based on their sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation. They aren't good enough because of DADT leading to possible discharges if the accuser happens to actually be found to be gay.
 
X Factor said:
Well, most don't now for obvious reasons, but that could change if there's no impediment to making such claims over relatively innocuous behavior.
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Most don't cause most people aren't douches who file a complaint for a joke. Most gays aren't either.
 
X Factor said:
Well, most don't now for obvious reasons, but that could change if there's no impediment to making such claims over relatively innocuous behavior.
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Actually, making false charges does have an impediment, a fairly serious one.
 
X Factor said:
I do get why this is so troubling to you and others, Star, but you have to consider the greater good. You can't expect the military to be as PC as civiian society.
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It's really not that hard to see the hypocrisy, and blatant discrimination in DADT. If you can not tell me how the activities I described would cause problems, then you really have no basis for this "greater good" argument, especially since, you know there is that scientific study saying that lifting DADT won't cause harm to military readiness. It's not about being PC, it's about treating everyone equally.
Stuff like starting a family, which is encouraged for straight soldiers is prohibited under DADT for LGBT soldiers because it is considered telling.
 
Navy Pride said:
I would not like to be in the Navy serving aboard ships at sea for periods of 90 days living in close quarters, showering, etc with men that were sexually attracted to me.........
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From what I can recall about you NP, that won't really be an issue, right? Since you are not in the Navy and very unlikely to get back in.
 
CriticalThought said:
You are joking right? Are you really that uninformed about this policy?
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That is my understanding of the policy. I remember when there was a complete ban on gays in the military, DADT was the compromise. Gays can serve, just keep it to yourself.
 
Redress said:
Actually, making false charges does have an impediment, a fairly serious one.
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But I'm not even talking about "false" charges. I'm talking about guys making possibly offensive comments getting in trouble for it.
 
X Factor said:
But I'm not even talking about "false" charges. I'm talking about guys making possibly offensive comments getting in trouble for it.
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Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are going to go crying to the commander just because someone used the word fag, or dyke if that's what you're getting at.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Existing in the same room is not sexual harassment.
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Simply existing, no. But even the most innocent action, or comment can be perceived as sexual harassment, in the miltiary. In the military, you can be charged with sexual harassment for looking at someone the wrong way; literally. You have to understand that we're dealing with a system where pointing your finger isn't allowed, because it can be taken as a threat of violence.

So, if gays and straights are forced to share billets, expect a rise in sexual harassment cases.
 
X Factor said:
But I'm not even talking about "false" charges. I'm talking about guys making possibly offensive comments getting in trouble for it.
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They can get in trouble for it now. I really don't see that as the biggest hurdle to repealing DADT.
 
Your Star said:
Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are going to go crying to the commander just because someone used the word fag, or dyke if that's what you're getting at.
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You wanna bet?

There EO boards are going to be very busy, after DADT is repealed.
 
Redress said:
It's not PC to think a person should be able to bring their partner to a command event for families. That is called common ****ing sense. Our military can handle those trials and tribulations perfectly well. Unlike some, I and Your Star actually think our military people are not idiots.
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What's common sense is that the military is different than other types of jobs. Guys live in very close proximity to each other. I don't think our military people are idiots at all, it's just I can understand how living with other guys who find you sexually desirable is probably something you wouldn't even want to know.
 
X Factor said:
But I'm not even talking about "false" charges. I'm talking about guys making possibly offensive comments getting in trouble for it.
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If people have a problem with things being said, they can ask for people to stop making that kind of comment. If the people continue to do so, then a report can be filed. It does happen, it's relatively rare. People with skin thin enough to take offense don't last long in the military as a general rule.
 
apdst said:
So, if gays and straights are forced to share billets, expect a rise in sexual harassment cases.
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I'm actually expecting a decline. After all, once DADT is repealed, gay members will be allowed to talk about their partners. People are far less likely to mispercieve sexual harrassment from someone when they know that individaul is already involved with someone.
 
Your Star said:
Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are going to go crying to the commander just because someone used the word fag, or dyke if that's what you're getting at.
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But how do you know this? Let me ask you, if someone made repeated jokes about homosexuals, would that be harassment?
 
apdst said:
You wanna bet?

There EO boards are going to be very busy, after DADT is repealed.
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I would indeed like to bet. If they're not the type of people to complain about it now, I don't see how the ability to be open will change their desire to whine.
 
Redress said:
If people have a problem with things being said, they can ask for people to stop making that kind of comment. If the people continue to do so, then a report can be filed. It does happen, it's relatively rare. People with skin thin enough to take offense don't last long in the military as a general rule.
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That wasn't my experience.
 
X Factor said:
What's common sense is that the military is different than other types of jobs. Guys live in very close proximity to each other. I don't think our military people are idiots at all, it's just I can understand how living with other guys who find you sexually desirable is probably something you wouldn't even want to know.
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Note the award under my name on the left here. See where it lists my 6 years of naval service. I have lived in as close a quarters as you can get, and I can state without question that gays can both handle that environment and be people can handle being around gays in that environment.
 
Kelzie said:
I would indeed like to bet. If they're not the type of people to complain about it now, I don't see how the ability to be open will change their desire to whine.
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Well, of course they're not going to complain about it, now. Don't ask, don't tell; remember?
 
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