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Thread: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

  1. #191
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Gay members can bring whomever they want to command events. There is no rule that states a male soldier must bring a female to said event or vice versa. As far as encouraged - encouraged by whom? I was never encouraged to get married by anyone in my command structure, nor was anyone else, so you'll need to provide some evidence as my direct experience disagrees with your statement. What servicemen and women do to reduce stress is their own business and every family and individual has their own way of coping. What this all boils down to after we separate the chaff is "gay marriage" again. Gays want to be openly gay and they cannot be openly gay while in the military without violating DADT. It has nothing to do with command events, or stress relief or any of that other nonsense. So, if they want marriage, they need to leave the military go to a state where gay marriage is legal, and get married and live their lives. I'm glad DADT stays, it should stay and LBGT people need to stop making their sexual proclivity other people's business.
    They may be able to bring them (depends on the event and the command), but in many cases they won't be able to openly claim them as their significant other nor will they be able to do some of the same things that opposite sex couples may be allowed to do, such as holding hands or dancing together (at least not the guys).

    And the fact that they give married BAH/housing, separation pay, spouse medical/dental benefits (affordable anyway), and other such benefits to married guys (plus many commands actually give guys who are married and/or have children some extra time off during certain holidays) encourages people to get married.

    And they deserve to be able to get married. That is just as unfair as DADT. It's bullcrap that we claim to be the most free country in the world, yet we are discriminating against a group of people because others believe that they are living in sin or those others don't want the government to change its definition of marriage because it may clash with their own definition (eventhough it would not actually force them to change their own definition).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #192
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Absolutely not. There is no rule in the military that you can or cannot admit to being Christian. That is a silly argument. And there isn't anyone who is trying to ram homoxsexuality up anyone's nose. What there IS is a few people who still want to believe that they have a right to control other people's lives because they aren't comfortable with their orientation.
    Who are those few people? Name them.

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It is no different than the bigots who didn't want to drink out of the same drinking fountains as blacks or any other discrimination.
    This isn't about "flaunting" anything. Its about allowing qualified people to serve honestly.
    They can serve honestly in a VOLUNTEER military as long as they follow the rules. The rules state DADT. If they don't like it, they can voluntarily leave early for miscellaneous reasons. It's just like anything else, if they cannot bear the rules they should leave.

    And this is NOTHING like black/white water fountains in ANY way imaginable. Gay is not a skin color nor is it obvious by looking at someone who's in a military unifor they are LGBT.

    And it's EVERYTHING like shoving religion on the military. You wouldn't like it and I wouldn't like it - nor do I like the repeal of DADT. Don't tell me, I don't want to know. What's so hard to understand about that? Instead, you want it repealed so I'd have to know.

    Bottom line is DD - the repeal ain't gonna happen in the lame duck. It's not gonna happen next year or the year after that. The next shot Congress has at repealing DADT is pobably in 4-6 years so get used to it sticking around.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #193
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They may be able to bring them (depends on the event and the command), but in many cases they won't be able to openly claim them as their significant other nor will they be able to do some of the same things that opposite sex couples may be allowed to do, such as holding hands or dancing together (at least not the guys).
    Dancing and holding hands at command events is not a very compelling reason, nor is it a military reason - those are social events.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And the fact that they give married BAH/housing, separation pay, spouse medical/dental benefits (affordable anyway), and other such benefits to married guys (plus many commands actually give guys who are married and/or have children some extra time off during certain holidays) encourages people to get married.
    No where in the military does a command stated that it encourages any of their personnel to get married. This isn't encouragement it's a benefit for those who have chosen to marry.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And they deserve to be able to get married. That is just as unfair as DADT. It's bullcrap that we claim to be the most free country in the world, yet we are discriminating against a group of people because others believe that they are living in sin or those others don't want the government to change its definition of marriage because it may clash with their own definition (eventhough it would not actually force them to change their own definition).
    They can get married, just not in the military. If they want marriage, voluntarily leave the military and do whatever they want. Sorry you don't like rules and regs... but that's just the way it is. You can't do a lot of things in the military - didn't you notice?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #194
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    They can serve honestly in a VOLUNTEER military as long as they follow the rules. The rules state DADT. If they don't like it, they can voluntarily leave early for miscellaneous reasons. It's just like anything else, if they cannot bear the rules they should leave.

    And this is NOTHING like black/white water fountains in ANY way imaginable. Gay is not a skin color nor is it obvious by looking at someone who's in a military unifor they are LGBT.

    And it's EVERYTHING like shoving religion on the military. You wouldn't like it and I wouldn't like it - nor do I like the repeal of DADT. Don't tell me, I don't want to know. What's so hard to understand about that? Instead, you want it repealed so I'd have to know.

    Bottom line is DD - the repeal ain't gonna happen in the lame duck. It's not gonna happen next year or the year after that. The next shot Congress has at repealing DADT is pobably in 4-6 years so get used to it sticking around.
    The rules are unfair. That is why people, including people who aren't gay, are trying to get DADT repealed.

    It is not like shoving religion onto the military. No one will be forced to be gay. If religion was pushed on the military, it would be someone trying to force everyone in the military to be of a certain religion. Not the same at all.

    And, so you would have no problem if there was a group of people who were born with a star birthmark on their butt and they were told that they would get kicked out of the military if they shared their birth mark with anyone else then? After all, when covered up, no one would be able to actually see their birthmark, so they would look just the same as everyone else. Who cares if they were born with it, others in the military are uncomfortable with it, so why should we make others feel uncomfortable with it when those with their birthmarks could easily hide it? See how ridiculous your argument sounds?

    DADT and DOMA are discrimination. And DADT encourages intolerance of sexualities other than heterosexuality, which is wrong.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #195
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The rules are unfair. That is why people, including people who aren't gay, are trying to get DADT repealed.
    LIfe isn't fair - welcome to reality. And DADT will be around fo a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And, so you would have no problem if there was a group of people who were born with a star birthmark on their butt and they were told that they would get kicked out of the military if they shared their birth mark with anyone else then?
    Yep. Fine with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    DADT and DOMA are discrimination. And DADT encourages intolerance of sexualities other than heterosexuality, which is wrong.
    Then LBGT shouldn't VOLUNTARILY enlist in the military if it's so discriminatory.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Dancing and holding hands at command events is not a very compelling reason, nor is it a military reason - those are social events.

    No where in the military does a command stated that it encourages any of their personnel to get married. This isn't encouragement it's a benefit for those who have chosen to marry.

    They can get married, just not in the military. If they want marriage, voluntarily leave the military and do whatever they want. Sorry you don't like rules and regs... but that's just the way it is. You can't do a lot of things in the military - didn't you notice?
    Doesn't matter if it is just a social event, if it is sponsored by the military, then the military should be treating everyone equally and not discriminating. It would be a huge deal if a command said that interracial couples were not allowed to hold hands, hug, dance or kiss at a command event, but same race couples were completely free to do so. Just because you are too blinded by your own biases does not mean that it isn't discrimination.

    Giving benefits to married personnel encourages marriage, whether intentionally or not.

    They cannot get a full civil marriage because of DOMA. They do not get all the legal protections or benefits of opposite sex couples given by the federal government. That is discrimination and wrong. And it is against Equal Protection, so it is also unconstitutional.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #197
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    get used to it sticking around.
    That's what the bigots said during the civil rights battles of the 1960's. The great thing about America is that we don't always get it right....right away...but ultimately America stands from freedom and equality and righteousness and justice will eventually prevail....if not tomorrow, then the day after that or the day after that.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    When Ockham says that life isn't fair, what he means to say is that "this particular law is unfair, but let's keep it anyway becomes I think it's gross that gay men stick their wingwangs in their bumskies."

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That's what the bigots said during the civil rights battles of the 1960's. The great thing about America is that we don't always get it right....right away...but ultimately America stands from freedom and equality and righteousness and justice will eventually prevail....if not tomorrow, then the day after that or the day after that.
    That's fine. Until it's removed as a military rule to be followed, DADT should stay just where it is. Progressive always use the civil rights movement as their poster boy for shoving their morals up everyone elses noses. This has nothing to do with the civil rights movement, this has to do with a volunteer military. If it eventually changes, fine. Until then, don't ask and don't tell is just peachy with me.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    LIfe isn't fair - welcome to reality. And DADT will be around fo a while.

    Yep. Fine with it.

    Then LBGT shouldn't VOLUNTARILY enlist in the military if it's so discriminatory.
    And we are working to make life more fair by trying to get DADT repealed.

    Also, I don't care when it happens. I still blame the Republican party for it not being repealed. Hopefully it will be introduced as a stand alone bill before the end of this session. As a stand alone bill, then there is a good chance that it will pass, and the House has already said that it will introduce a similar bill to get passed. And if it doesn't get passed, then those who voted against it will have a lot to answer for, since many of those said that they would repeal DADT if the military wanted it, and the military has already approved the repeal.

    Congressmen need to stop playing politics and start doing their damn jobs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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