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Thread: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Your first scenario would not be prevented by DADT.
    In my professional opinion, it would.


    A soldier could find out now that there was a gay soldier or someone that he believed was gay, and choose not to protect the gay soldier from enemy fire. In that case, the person should be punished severely for allowing his fellow soldier to die because he didn't approve of his sexuality.
    Right. Try proving that in a courts martial.

    Your second scenario is also not prevented by DADT. In fact, it is far more likely with DADT in place, because if the closeted gay soldier had to listen to a particular soldier express his disgust of gays day in and day out but is fearful of turning the soldier in because, during the investigation, it could be found that the accuser is actually gay and he could be discharged for doing so, then it would be much more effective for a person who really wanted to rid themselves of such a bigot, to just allow him to get killed in combat. However, that gay soldier should too be punished for allowing his fellow soldier to die because he didn't have the courage to stand up to the guy or at least find a way to turn him in or just deal with it.
    In my professional opinion, it would be prevented.





    A soldier would be required to prove that his roommate is actually harassing him. He cannot simply refuse to berth with someone just because a person is gay and the straight soldier believes that the gay guy may sexually assault him just because he is gay. There has to be documented proof that it likely to happen. And if there is proof, then the gay guy would most likely be punished for it and probably discharged for the sexual harassment.
    It doesn't work like that in the Army. Isn't your hubby in the Army? Ask him. An accusation, alone, is basis enough to go ahead with harassment charges. In those situations, the burden of proof is on the accused. You're thinking like a civilian and it just don't work like that in the service.
    And the gay soldier would have to have some sort of proof that his safety was threatened by the other soldier, not just his own fear that the soldier might do him harm.

    There will be issues with repealing DADT, but they are not nearly as huge as you are making them out to be. Gays and straights already live together in the military.
    But, what if you're wrong? Does anyone have the guts to tackle that question?



    Which has nothing to do with why the Cmdt has no idea what will actually happen when the **** hits the fan if he has openly gay troops in his units. In fact, he already does have gay marines who have at least admitted to some of those that they work with that they are gay. One of them came out to his buddy on my lanai in Hawaii. The buddy's reaction was "man, you too? So and so told me he was gay. What is it with all the gay marines coming out to me?" and they moved on to another subject. Most people don't really care if they have to work with gay men/women. And many of those who say that they would care, will most likely see things differently when they actually are working with openly gay men/women. There are other rules in place to deal with those who do or those gay men/women who would cause issues.[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #1192
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Damn it. You know, I really hate it when you and another person post at the same time, saying the same thing, only they said it much better.
    You said it in much less words than I did.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    The scenarios are endless now and we don't see this stuff happening. People are picked on in the miltary and don't leave their bully to die. People still provide cover for those in their unit that they despise. Despite your fears, our military is professional enough to know where the line is that you don't cross.



    And if a gay or a straight soldiers is harassing someone, the issue can be dealt with then. The mere existence of a gay soldier is not harassment though. There's no law in the miltary that gurantees you can move billets if you feel uncomfortable. Otherwise the military never would have desegregated.



    I have no doubt the Commandant would have put his full faith and support behind this study if it had the results he wanted it to.
    You're prepared to posibly make it worse?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're prepared to posibly make it worse?
    Bullying's bullying. A few people have a propensity to engage in that type of behavior, but I don't see gays being open encouraging more people to bully.
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I already did, but here you go.

    BBC NEWS | UK | Army acts to promote gay rights
    I missed it. Doing stuff around house, but will check out your links and get back to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    If I may,
    the problem with being openly gay, especially on the battle field is the people fighing along side you are in their early 20's, if that.
    the scenarios I saw, personally were based on "why would you want to flaunt being gay, stfu.
    I may know you're gay, but if you are worthy to fight, and keep it to yourself, as I would say my belief that "Spongebob" was one of my favorite shows back home, then I would have no problem with it.
    but if I was to openly talk about Spongebob episodes all the time, I would expect 20 year olds to poke fun at me from time to time.

    Would they leave me to die because of it? no of course not.

    but i've ran out into a firefight to drag an enemy soldier to safety too, these things know no predjudice, within reason of course.
    JMO

    the problem I see with the other side of the argument here is that liberals seem to want to think everyone thinks like they do
    Last edited by shades; 12-15-10 at 04:23 PM.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Bullying's bullying. A few people have a propensity to engage in that type of behavior, but I don't see gays being open encouraging more people to bully.
    Well, if that were true, there wouldn't be any such thing as hate crimes laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #1198
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by shades View Post
    If I may,
    the problem with being openly gay, especially on the battle field is the people fighing along side you are in their early 20's, if that.
    the scenarios I saw, personally were based on "why would you want to flaunt being gay, stfu.
    I may know you're gay, but if you are worthy to fight, and keep it to yourself, as I would say my belief that "Spongebob" was one of my favorite shows back home, then I would have no problem with it.
    but if I was to openly talk about Spongebob episodes all the time, I would expect 20 year olds to poke fun at me from time to time.

    Would they leave me to die because of it? no of course not.

    but i've ran out into a firefight to drag an enemy soldier to safety too, these things know no predjudice, within reason of course.
    JMO

    the problem I see with the other side of the argument here is that liberals seem to want to think everyone thinks like they do
    At the same time, we know that that's not the case 100% of the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #1199
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Well, if that were true, there wouldn't be any such thing as hate crimes laws.
    Which has what to do with what we're talking about?
    be humble for you are made of earth; be noble for you are made of stars

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelzie View Post
    Which has what to do with what we're talking about?
    Because you said that being gay doesn't encourage discrimination. Actually...it does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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