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Thread: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Depends on how drunk I am...
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    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Navy has made many comments on the thread topic and I stand by mine. You live in a real dream world where everything is perfect and you have all the answers. What happens if you are wrong? We know how the law has worked for the past 17 years so why change it?
    And I specifically quoted one and referenced it in the post you quoted.
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What's the argument been all this time? "Our soldiers are mature, intelligent and very proffessional, they can handle it"? Isn't that what we've heard?

    Also, I'm not talking about leaving DADT in place, permanently. But, at least for the time being leave it where it is, with modifications, ease into the transition and slowly lift the DADT restrictions until the policy is no longer needed. I think it's going to be a barrel of monkies, otherwise.

    Is it practical to have gays and straights billeting seperately? Part of what binds a unit together is the fact that they live together. I'm telling you, that's going to happen. The Commandant of the Marine Corps has already said that it's going to be necessary.
    The policy is not needed now and changing everything as a transition period is not practical. You, nor the Marine Corps Cmdt, have any proof to back up your beliefs. There is evidence, from both what happened when other countries allowed gays to serve openly and from the real stories of people who have actually worked with openly gay people, that this transition (from DADT to allowing gays to serve openly) will not have any significant affect on the military.
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The policy is not needed now and changing everything as a transition period is not practical. You, nor the Marine Corps Cmdt, have any proof to back up your beliefs.
    Our military commanders aren't going to wait for proof. Just like they didn't billet males and females together, until it turned out to be a bad idea. They went ahead and gave them seperate billets, from the gitgo and that's my prediciton in this case, as well.

    There is evidence, from both what happened when other countries allowed gays to serve openly and from the real stories of people who have actually worked with openly gay people, that this transition (from DADT to allowing gays to serve openly) will not have any significant affect on the military.
    That evidence is both annecdotal and in the minority.

    I can't ask this enough: what if you're wrong?
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    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Navy has made many comments on the thread topic and I stand by mine. You live in a real dream world where everything is perfect and you have all the answers. What happens if you are wrong? We know how the law has worked for the past 17 years so why change it?
    Who has it worked for?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Our military commanders aren't going to wait for proof. Just like they didn't billet males and females together, until it turned out to be a bad idea. They went ahead and gave them seperate billets, from the gitgo and that's my prediciton in this case, as well.



    That evidence is both annecdotal and in the minority.

    I can't ask this enough: what if you're wrong?
    What is the worst case scenario, specifically, if I'm wrong? What exactly do you think will happen? And why wouldn't any of the things that you believe might happen be able to be adequately dealt with by actually using other rules already in place?
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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Who has it worked for?
    It has worked for the security of this country which is the purpose of the military. read the Constitution, "Provide for the Common Defense."

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What is the worst case scenario, specifically, if I'm wrong? What exactly do you think will happen?
    Someone could die?

    And why wouldn't any of the things that you believe might happen be able to be adequately dealt with by actually using other rules already in place?
    That's the point I've been making. A gay soldier is going to show up, all gay-n-proud and someone is going to refuse to billet with him/her. The rules in place dictate that a soldier has that right.

    Allow me to quote the Commandant. I know he'll be called a bigot, because you don't dig what he has to say. If he did, he would be, "brilliant and enlightened".

    “Mistakes and inattention or distractions cost Marines lives, that’s the currency of this fight.

    “I don’t want to lose any Marines to the distraction. I don’t want to have any Marines that I’m visiting at Bethesda with no legs be the result of any type of distraction.”…
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    Who has it worked for?
    The United States armed forces are the finest fighting force in the history of the world. That's proof that it worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: 'Don't ask' repeal fails in Senate

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Someone could die?
    How exactly? I don't want a general "someone could die. That doesn't explain how exactly that death was caused just because someone is openly gay. You have no evidence whatsoever that it could happen, let alone that it will happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's the point I've been making. A gay soldier is going to show up, all gay-n-proud and someone is going to refuse to billet with him/her. The rules in place dictate that a soldier has that right.

    Allow me to quote the Commandant. I know he'll be called a bigot, because you don't dig what he has to say. If he did, he would be, "brilliant and enlightened".
    Okay, but they don't have a right to not billet with the openly gay person. The unit can choose to allow them the privilege of not billeting with that person, but it isn't a right, anymore than it would be a right to refuse to billet with someone who is a complete slob or smells or who is of a different religion. A unit can try to make billeting changes to make people more comfortable, if it is practical. But they don't have to. Sometimes soldiers/marines/sailors are just forced to suck it up. We had a very big girl in my department who slept completely naked. She was not attractive at all. And she refused to wear clothes to bed. We couldn't get transferred out of that berthing, nor could we have her transferred out. So we all just dealt with it.

    And, I don't think the Marine Corps Cmdt is necessarily a bigot. I do think that he is paranoid and not aware of how scientific polls are actually done and why they are done the way they are.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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