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Thread: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

  1. #51
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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Because the death of the property owner is one of the least disruptive times (for both the estate and the economy as a whole) for the government to tax property. It prevents property from concentrating too heavily and reduces wealth disparity.
    Socialism..
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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Demint and the Tea Party Patriots are outraged about them. That's all I know. They didn't want any spending and they wanted the death tax at 0%
    Right, he's outraged about the unemployment benefits and the fact that Obama only MOSTLY capitulated instead of ENTIRELY capitulated on the estate tax (despite the fact that no one in the press or the Democratic Congress seemed to know that estate tax cuts were even on the table before the deal was announced).

    But as far as I can tell, he's not pissed off about those other tax cuts you mentioned. Therefore they aren't concessions that Obama extracted for the Republicans, they're just common-sense ideas that EVERYONE supported. By my count, the only thing that might actually qualify as a Republican concession is the extension of unemployment benefits...and this was pretty minor compared to the extension of the Bush tax cuts and the lower estate tax that they got.
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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    This assumes that spending continues the way it is, with the standard spending increases year over year. I've gotta say, let the taxes go up, and let the unemployment run out. It's time people started tightening their belts and taking jobs that paid less so they can get employed and off the government cheese.
    A poll showed that a good number of people want to do just that. Doubt it'll happen though. We're too soft.
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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well if you accept the premise that the government has SOME legitimate interest in taxing someone at some point in their lives, then it's just a question of where is the best time to do it. And the death of the property-owner makes logical sense.



    This is just a moral argument that you've accepted as an article of faith. Since I simply disagree, there's really not much debate to be had. Which is why I generally focus on pragmatic arguments instead of moralistic arguments.

    High levels of wealth disparity create all sorts of other economic problems which society ends up paying for (e.g. crime, poverty, unhealthy and poorly educated work forces). Additionally, more concentrated wealth tends to reduce consumer purchasing power, which hurts the economy.
    it's not a matter of 'when', it's a matter of 'how much'. taking more than half of everything my father slaved his whole life for, is simply unfair, regardless of your opinions on the morality involved in taking from Peter to give to Paul.

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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    A poll showed that a good number of people want to do just that. Doubt it'll happen though. We're too soft.
    Yeah and it's because of all that cheese.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    it's not a matter of 'when', it's a matter of 'how much'. taking more than half of everything my father slaved his whole life for, is simply unfair, regardless of your opinions on the morality involved in taking from Peter to give to Paul.
    I don't see what's so unfair about that. Once he's dead, he no longer needs that property anymore, and his descendents didn't earn it themselves so they don't have a particularly strong claim to make the "slaved his whole life for it" argument. That's not to say that the state should take EVERYTHING; I recognize that people have legitimate interests in providing for their children, and the state should be cognizant of that.

    But at some point, the motivation to provide for one's children stops being an incentive to produce more. I find it difficult to believe that people are going to be less motivated to produce, if they can only leave their kids $10 million instead of $20 million. Therefore estates seem to be an ideal place for the government to tax wealth: the old owner doesn't need it anymore, the new owner didn't do anything to earn it, it's progressive, it's easy, and it's unlikely to significantly change people's economic motivations.
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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    This assumes that spending continues the way it is, with the standard spending increases year over year. I've gotta say, let the taxes go up, and let the unemployment run out. It's time people started tightening their belts and taking jobs that paid less so they can get employed and off the government cheese.
    Hell to the yes.

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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't see what's so unfair about that. Once he's dead, he no longer needs that property anymore, and his descendents didn't earn it themselves so they don't have a particularly strong claim to make the "slaved his whole life for it" argument. That's not to say that the state should take EVERYTHING; I recognize that people have legitimate interests in providing for their children, and the state should be cognizant of that.

    But at some point, the motivation to provide for one's children stops being an incentive to produce more. I find it difficult to believe that people are going to be less motivated to produce, if they can only leave their kids $10 million instead of $20 million. Therefore estates seem to be an ideal place for the government to tax wealth: the old owner doesn't need it anymore, the new owner didn't do anything to earn it, it's progressive, it's easy, and it's unlikely to significantly change people's economic motivations.
    So, because he's dead, he's not allowed to give it to his own children instead of yours?

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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Oh. My. Should we stock up on popcorn, The Prof?
    Yes you should stock up on popcorn , save every penny you can and hide it in a safety box under the mattress...
    Do all the above, before the Repubs and Dems start stealing from the poor to give to the rich, (Robin Hood Style)...

    God Bless America, Land OF The Greedy, Because Politics Doesn't Care About the Poor And The Needy !!!

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    Re: Pelosi pledges to win changes as House Dems reject tax-cut deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    So, because he's dead, he's not allowed to give it to his own children instead of yours?
    I explained the practical justification for the estate tax. I'm not going to debate your morality because there's really nothing to debate; you've just decided that it's "unfair" and there's not much I can say to get you to change your opinion. If you want to discuss it from a practical/pragmatic/economic standpoint, let me know.
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