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Thread: Hackers Target WikiLeaks 'Enemies': Mastercard, Twitter, Paypal, Even FoxNews(edited)

  1. #31
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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz
    However, using that as a justification to create mass DDoS attacks against businesses isn't appropriate. We have the rule of law in this country, allowing vigilanteism undermines that basic premise of our society.
    The rule of law is the law of the propertied classes. The vigilantes in the state simply legitimize their actions through it. Law is not an arbiter of whether or not something is good, or should/shouldn't be done, but merely a way of justifying vigilante actions by the state and attacking any resistance by non-state actors. Much in the same way that - as Assange very correctly said - "freedom of the press" only exists in countries where speech has no power, and in that way it isn't truly free. The Wikileaks debacle is merely further evidence that when speech has power and goes directly against state interests, it is vehemently attacked and suppressed on all levels.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The rule of law is the law of the propertied classes.
    The rule of law provides all citizens with an equal opportunity to have their day in court. Are these situations always perfectly executed? Of course not, because human beings are involved. But, we have 200 years of history that suggest that having one's day in court is a pretty damn good system. I see your communist diadactic, but it's unthinking groupspeak.

    Law is not an arbiter of whether or not something is good, or should/shouldn't be done, but merely a way of justifying vigilante actions by the state and attacking any resistance by non-state actors.
    NO. The law provides an airing and a test of democratic action, and functions as an ongoing method of improving society.

    Our bill of rights is the litmus test that every court action must past.

    Much in the same way that - as Assange very correctly said - "freedom of the press" only exists in countries where speech has no power, and in that way it isn't truly free.
    Actually, freedom of the press doesn't exist in many places, but where it does exist, it is a check on the powers of government as powerful as any other.

    The Wikileaks debacle is merely further evidence that when speech has power and goes directly against state interests, it is vehemently attacked and suppressed on all levels.
    It is always attacked. However, the U.S. has a history of affirming such speech, in that inevitable day in court (rule of law).

    You should read up on what actually happened in regards to the Pentagon Papers. All of what you describe occurred...but, in court, the first amendment rights of the press were upheld, and all charges were dismissed against the leaker.

    It is not a clean process, but it works.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 12-09-10 at 12:31 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz
    The rule of law provides all citizens with an equal opportunity to have their day in court. Are these situations always perfectly executed? Of course not, because human beings are involved. But, we have 200 years of history that suggest that having one's day in court is a pretty damn good system. I see your communist diadactic, but it's unthinking groupspeak.
    I could probably name 100 events off the top of my head that go against the myth of "equal treatment under the law".

    Actually, freedom of the press doesn't exist in many places, but where it does exist, it is a check on the powers of government as powerful as any other.
    The press is no longer a watchdog group for the government. Their response to the leaked cables proves this. They've been coming out and saying there is nothing new in the cables, and condemning Wikileaks with the same lines that the government is using. They've refused to publish some of the most damning revelations. The mainstream media (i.e. the corporate press) in the United States is an unofficial arm of the state. It effectively functions as an implicit state press.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I could probably name 100 events off the top of my head that go against the myth of "equal treatment under the law".



    The press is no longer a watchdog group for the government. Their response to the leaked cables proves this. They've been coming out and saying there is nothing new in the cables, and condemning Wikileaks with the same lines that the government is using. They've refused to publish some of the most damning revelations. The mainstream media (i.e. the corporate press) in the United States is an unofficial arm of the state. It effectively functions as an implicit state press.
    Well, Obama did bail out NBC. They owe him. LOL

    But seriously, perhaps the press recognized that some of that information was detrimental to security interests of the US. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and you can't report something that compromises national security. (God help me, I just quoted from Diane Feinstein)

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    As always, Erod, you bring quite a humorous perspective to the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
    If there's Nothing New in these documents, can Jonathan Capehart (or any other "journalist" claiming this) please point to where The Washington Post previously reported on these facts, all revealed by the WikiLeaks disclosures:

    (1) the U.S. military formally adopted a policy of turning a blind eye to systematic, pervasive torture and other abuses by Iraqi forces;

    (2) the State Department threatened Germany not to criminally investigate the CIA's kidnapping of one of its citizens who turned out to be completely innocent;

    (3) the State Department under Bush and Obama applied continuous pressure on the Spanish Government to suppress investigations of the CIA's torture of its citizens and the 2003 killing of a Spanish photojournalist when the U.S. military fired on the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad (see The Philadelphia Inquirer's Will Bunch today about this: "The day Barack Obama Lied to me");

    (4) the British Government privately promised to shield Bush officials from embarrassment as part of its Iraq War "investigation";

    (5) there were at least 15,000 people killed in Iraq that were previously uncounted;

    (6) "American leaders lied, knowingly, to the American public, to American troops, and to the world" about the Iraq war as it was prosecuted, a conclusion the Post's own former Baghdad Bureau Chief wrote was proven by the WikiLeaks documents;

    (7) the U.S.'s own Ambassador concluded that the July, 2009 removal of the Honduran President was illegal -- a coup -- but the State Department did not want to conclude that and thus ignored it until it was too late to matter;

    (8) U.S. and British officials colluded to allow the U.S. to keep cluster bombs on British soil even though Britain had signed the treaty banning such weapons, and,

    (9) Hillary Clinton's State Department ordered diplomats to collect passwords, emails, and biometric data on U.N. and other foreign officials, almost certainly in violation of the Vienna Treaty of 1961.

    That's just a sampling.

    From here.

    Oh and Catz since you're so interested in the Wikileaks phenomenon you'd probably be interested in the rest of Greenwalds articles on the subject. He's probably my favorite writer covering the leaks. Check this out.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    As always, Erod, you bring quite a humorous perspective to the thread.
    From a lover of Trotsky, I find that comforting.

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Well, Obama did bail out NBC. They owe him. LOL

    But seriously, perhaps the press recognized that some of that information was detrimental to security interests of the US. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater, and you can't report something that compromises national security. (God help me, I just quoted from Diane Feinstein)
    "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent." - Ruling against the ability to oppose the draft

    I don't support the government's "right" to keep secrets from its people, even in the case of "national security".

    What if the US government brutally lined up 50,000 innocent Afghans, shot them in the back, and threw them in mass graves. I would consider it my moral duty to spread the word if I came into contact with this information, regardless of whether or not it would prompt terrorist attacks on the US by Muslim extremists in retaliation, or if it were classified or not.

    I support an entirely transparent government.

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent." - Ruling against the ability to oppose the draft

    I don't support the government's "right" to keep secrets from its people, even in the case of "national security".

    What if the US government brutally lined up 50,000 innocent Afghans, shot them in the back, and threw them in mass graves. I would consider it my moral duty to spread the word if I came into contact with this information, regardless of whether or not it would prompt terrorist attacks on the US by Muslim extremists in retaliation, or if it were classified or not.

    I support an entirely transparent government.
    For something that horrific, I would agree. But for a private comment or suggestion that could strain an already strained relationship, I find it unnecessarily dangerous.

    I prefer to believe that we aren't run like a Nazi regime, as your example would be an example of.

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    I could probably name 100 events off the top of my head that go against the myth of "equal treatment under the law".
    Exceptions don't make the rule. And, as I showed with the Pentagon Papers, even when the law is circumvented at first, there are built in measures to address this problem.

    The press is no longer a watchdog group for the government. Their response to the leaked cables proves this. They've been coming out and saying there is nothing new in the cables, and condemning Wikileaks with the same lines that the government is using. They've refused to publish some of the most damning revelations. The mainstream media (i.e. the corporate press) in the United States is an unofficial arm of the state. It effectively functions as an implicit state press.
    Which is why the void has been filled by Wikileaks. And, it is causing a shakeup to the status quo that I suspect will result in greater press vigilance in the future. Such gains are never made without pain.

    The system works. Not all the time, not without pain, not without error, but it works.

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    Re: MasterCard site is down, twitter, paypal, foxnews.com is next in hacker attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    For something that horrific, I would agree. But for a private comment or suggestion that could strain an already strained relationship, I find it unnecessarily dangerous.

    I prefer to believe that we aren't run like a Nazi regime, as your example would be an example of.
    Are you okay, then, with Dyncorp hiring adolescent male prostitutes for Afghani diplomats using tax dollars?

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