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Thread: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreReborn View Post
    I disagree. I read that website and the man's biography and I am not convinced...
    If you have read through that site, among many others, and are still not convinced, then you appear to have made up your mind and no amount of documentation will suit you.

    Though I agree Islam does in fact call for violence so does the bible.
    With the difference being, of course, Christians are not committing terrorism throughout the world in the name of their religion. Muslims are.

    The bible does preach intolerance against homosexuality and women. Not to mention justifies slavery and extreme violent punishments. Does that mean the fundmental principles of Christianity is wrong? No but same could be said of Islam.
    While there is indeed intolerance in the Bible, women, Gays, adulterers, as well as children, are not being stoned to death today, not are Christians trying to commit terrorism on several levels.

    This desperate search for relativism between Christianity and Islamic terrorism in some sort of 'they all do it' game is becoming more and more foolish. The airport security checks people have to go through these days has not come about as a result of any violence and murder inspired by the Christian Bible.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    [QUOTE=Grant;1059157644]

    If you have read through that site, among many others, and are still not convinced, then you appear to have made up your mind and no amount of documentation will suit you.



    With the difference being, of course, Christians are not committing terrorism throughout the world in the name of their religion. Muslims are.



    While there is indeed intolerance in the Bible, women, Gays, adulterers, as well as children, are not being stoned to death today, not are Christians trying to commit terrorism on several levels.

    This desperate search for relativism between Christianity and Islamic terrorism in some sort of 'they all do it' game is becoming more and more foolish. The airport security checks people have to go through these days has not come about as a result of any violence and murder inspired by the Christian Bible.
    Absolutely right. Islamapologists, please give up on the "Christian bible says it too" line. It's stupid. Everybody knows its a cop-out, and by resorting to something that can be easily refuted, as Grant just did (and dozens of others before him), you guys weaken your argument, not strengthen it. Although I'm quite well aware of the hate, genocide, misogyny, brutality, etc. called for (if not commanded) in the Koran, and I'm not as well aware of these bad things being in the Christian bible, even they even are (I don't ever see examples given, that might even come close to matching the Koran and Hadith), the crux of all this is what is happening in the world today (as well as over the past 1400 years),

    Still wouldn't matter even if they were there. Bottom line is, there isn't any Christian, or any other religion outside of Islam that has a Muslim Brotherhood type organization that is actively seeking to conquer and eradicate all other religions, and set up a world-wide caliphate. The many offsring organizations which the Muslim Brotherhood is parent to (ex. Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc) are doing exactly that with violence, while others like CAIR, the Muslim Student Association, and the Islamic Society of North America due it quietly, through Steath Jihad.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Beginning to get an idea of how much you don't know ? or how unqualifed you are to use words like "over-reaction" ?
    Okay, I get it. You despise Islam and want it destroyed. That's fine. But for all your resources, I suggest you have never spent time in a place like Lebanon, for example, standing between Christians and Muslims in Beirut. Ironically, you get to know average people over time, whether Christian or Muslim. There were kind, hard working people on both sides of the civil war (started by radicals bent on proclaiming the other evil). There were a few real bastards, too, but overall? Not so much.

    I'm not defending the doctrines of Islam that were written "by the devil himself". I'm defending people that, like most Christians, really don't buy in to the insane parts of the whole thing, like US Congressmen influencing the "Kill the Gays" legislation in Uganda, for instance. Average Muslims despised the neighborhood cleansing that went on in Iraq, too.

    A relatively few ideologues can make a real mess for the majority.

    Uganda Kill The Gays Bill | US Evangelists

    Uganda's "Kill the Gays" Bill Tied To Rick Warren Mentor | PEEK | AlterNet

    So seriously, if you want to prepare yourself for a sudden onslaught of Sharia law, be my guest. But a radical is a radical regardless of politics or religion, and we all need to stop painting with these broad brushes, imo. Big problems have many parts.

    Now, when the truck bombs exploded the morning of October 23, 1983, in our compound and that of the French, nobody went looking for Muslims to kill. Nobody blamed the local Muslim population for anything. We blamed Islamic Jihad (Hezbollah) and Iran. The reason for this is clear: you gain unqualified support with religion and patriotism. The far-right and far-left always pulls this crap and everyone always falls for it. Truth is, people are people, mostly.
    Last edited by Kev316; 12-14-10 at 01:59 PM.
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

  4. #144
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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    [QUOTE=Protectionist;1059157836]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Absolutely right. Islamapologists, please give up on the "Christian bible says it too" line. It's stupid. Everybody knows its a cop-out, and by resorting to something that can be easily refuted, as Grant just did (and dozens of others before him), you guys weaken your argument, not strengthen it. Although I'm quite well aware of the hate, genocide, misogyny, brutality, etc. called for (if not commanded) in the Koran, and I'm not as well aware of these bad things being in the Christian bible, even they even are (I don't ever see examples given, that might even come close to matching the Koran and Hadith), the crux of all this is what is happening in the world today (as well as over the past 1400 years),

    Still wouldn't matter even if they were there. Bottom line is, there isn't any Christian, or any other religion outside of Islam that has a Muslim Brotherhood type organization that is actively seeking to conquer and eradicate all other religions, and set up a world-wide caliphate. The many offsring organizations which the Muslim Brotherhood is parent to (ex. Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc) are doing exactly that with violence, while others like CAIR, the Muslim Student Association, and the Islamic Society of North America due it quietly, through Steath Jihad.
    The actual Biblical argument - the one that should be used by Christians - is simply this:

    Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the publicans the same? And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Christianity, should one practice it correctly, is a faith of tremendous discipline. It's not really about bemoaning the sin of the world. It's more about bemoaning our own shortcomings, individually, and walking in love toward all our fellows whether they deserve it or not. It's not on them, it's on us. Sorry, I didn't write it.
    I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    [QUOTE=Kev316;1059158073]
    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post

    The actual Biblical argument - the one that should be used by Christians - is simply this:

    Matthew 5:43-48 You have heard that it has been said, You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy. But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? Do not even the publicans the same? And if you salute your brothers only, what do you more than others? Do not even the publicans so? Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Christianity, should one practice it correctly, is a faith of tremendous discipline. It's not really about bemoaning the sin of the world. It's more about bemoaning our own shortcomings, individually, and walking in love toward all our fellows whether they deserve it or not. It's not on them, it's on us. Sorry, I didn't write it.
    It's a nice thought. Loving your enemies. Only problem is, loving jihadists, whether they be violent now, or Stealth Jihadists ("moderate" now, violent later) is asking to have millions of people killed, subjugated, enslaved, pedophiled, etc. As a protectionist, that is unacceptable to me, and I don't care who said it.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    Only problem is, loving jihadists, whether they be violent now, or Stealth Jihadists ("moderate" now, violent later)
    Stealth Jihadists...

    That sounds like a pre-emptive condemnation for anyone (of the islamic faith) not out terrorizing the neighborhood... due to the assumption that they could become active one day. Yes?

    Do you also take that stealth position to other criminal activities where a particular demographic accounts for a significant majority of those who commit a given offense? Say... blacks & murder (and the non-killers are just killers in waiting) or... caucasian men and DUI's (and the non-drunk drivers are just soon to be "over the limits")? I guess I'm asking just how far does that "protectionist" arm span out...

    What's your solution btw?
    Because...
    The Ultimate Excuse.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by E_Pluribus_Venom View Post
    Stealth Jihadists...

    That sounds like a pre-emptive condemnation for anyone (of the islamic faith) not out terrorizing the neighborhood... due to the assumption that they could become active one day. Yes?

    Do you also take that stealth position to other criminal activities where a particular demographic accounts for a significant majority of those who commit a given offense? Say... blacks & murder (and the non-killers are just killers in waiting) or... caucasian men and DUI's (and the non-drunk drivers are just soon to be "over the limits")? I guess I'm asking just how far does that "protectionist" arm span out...

    What's your solution btw?
    So you don't know what the term Stealth Jihad means, quite obvioulsy. That's OK. Neither do most Americans. Stealth Jihad is not covered too much in the MSM, and rarely, if ever, in liberal media like MSNBC, NPR, etc. If the the average American depended on knowledge about it in order to pay their rent/mortgage, we'd be a nation of homeless people.

    Stealth Jihad is the highly organized effort (originating from the Muslim Brotherhood) of hundreds of Muslim organizations, individuals, and aided by clueless "progressives" acting in ways that introduce Islam bit by bit into American society, and impose it upon American society (same with European countries), to where, eventually, Islam will (they hope) become dominant, Sharia law will replace the US Constitution in American, and the US will be an Islamic state. The ultimat e goal is a world-wide caliphate > ie, the whole world under Islam. It can well be defined by the author of the book "Stealth Jihad", Robert Spencer :

    "Those who are working to advance the hegemony of Islamic law do so in innumerable ways, including by introducing it, bit by bit, into American society and demanding that Americans accomodate it; by shouting down any and all who dare to discuss the supremacist impulse within traditional and mainstream Islam; and by engaging in efforts to transform and control Western economies."

    Referring to the Stealth Jihadists, Spencer says also : "...one of the key characterisics distinguishing them from their violent counterperts is that they carry out their business openly, carefully constructing a facade of moderation. Whay is stealth about these operatives is their ultimate agenda - they are not seeking to protect Muslims' "civil rights" from the rampant "Islamophobia" that ostensibly plagues Western societies, as they claim. Rather, they are leading a full scale effort to transform pluralistic societies into Islamic states..".
    "The stealth jihadists have already made significant inroads into American life. They are well-funded, well-organized, and persistent. They will not be pacified by negotiations, compromises, or concessions; they cannot be bought off. And every day, they are advancing their agenda - while most Americans don't even know they exist".


    Because Stealth Jihad is such a decentralized thing, to understand it, it's best to read a few of the good books written about it. Here's a few, in order of when to read, with comprehensive overview first, and then going to more specific.

    1. They Must Be Stopped, Brigitte Gabriel.

    2. Stealth Jihad, Robert Spencer.

    3. Muslim Mafia, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry:

    4. Infiltration, Paul Sperry.

    5. Shariah : the Threat to America, Center for Security Policy.

    As for the solution, that's simple. Simply preserve your country as it is (ex. the US Constitution), and do not give way to demands by those (Muslims or anyone else) who want to change it to suit themselves.
    Carefully preserve the truth in school textbooks, beware of Islamizing propaganda, don't settle out of court when Islamizing file suit, and above all, read these books.
    Be aware that those who call for protection of their religious freedom are advancing a cause (Islamization) which would abolish religious freedom, and the entire US Constitution along with it.
    Last edited by Protectionist; 12-15-10 at 01:40 PM.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by Protectionist View Post
    So you don't know what the term Stealth Jihad means, quite obvioulsy. That's OK. Neither do most Americans. Stealth Jihad is not covered too much in the MSM, and rarely, if ever, in liberal media like MSNBC, NPR, etc. If the the average American depended on knowledge about it in order to pay their rent/mortgage, we'd be a nation of homeless people.
    Excuse my lateness regarding a reply... I had to pick my eyes up after rolling them so hard.

    The traditional Christian approach (love thy enemy) to what you and others call stealth jihad doesn't seem as if it will create violence from a strategy based on "terrorism without bombs". You're talking about the advancement of a radical agenda, which (as you should know) doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam that supports western democracy while recognizing a secular system with no protest. You direct me to numerous outlets that all seem to portray an aggressive & dangerous threat to western civilization... with... no significant instances of actual threats to legal equality & freedom of speech that can be considered to advance a point?

    One author even goes on to say that a muslim President can create changes that introduce sharia law into our society. Really? We're to assume that, at that time, we'll no longer have congressional oversight? What a crock...
    Because...
    The Ultimate Excuse.

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by E_Pluribus_Venom View Post
    Excuse my lateness regarding a reply... I had to pick my eyes up after rolling them so hard.

    The traditional Christian approach (love thy enemy) to what you and others call stealth jihad doesn't seem as if it will create violence from a strategy based on "terrorism without bombs". You're talking about the advancement of a radical agenda, which (as you should know) doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam that supports western democracy while recognizing a secular system with no protest. You direct me to numerous outlets that all seem to portray an aggressive & dangerous threat to western civilization... with... no significant instances of actual threats to legal equality & freedom of speech that can be considered to advance a point?

    One author even goes on to say that a muslim President can create changes that introduce sharia law into our society. Really? We're to assume that, at that time, we'll no longer have congressional oversight? What a crock...
    What evidence do you have to support the idea that radical Islam "doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam"? Is that anything more than a hope?

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    Re: Arrest made in plot to blow up area military recruiting center

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What evidence do you have to support the idea that radical Islam "doesn't stand a chance to a moderate islam"?
    What evidence have you encountered that indicates a prevalent mentality that attempts to push a radical agenda? Where are the massive (or atleast significant) calls for an inclusion of theology w/ state legislation from the oh so intrusive radical islam? It appears that atheists are more apt to remove God from governing institutions at a rate that out-paces muslims trying to include it (if it even exists). How large is the muslim caucas in this country?

    My evidence shows itself in the lack of meaningful instances people can point to that suggests an aggressive movement of radicalized islam in this country.
    Because...
    The Ultimate Excuse.

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