The attitudes Islam holds toward governance in their Eastern homelands are the same as they were 50, 100, 200 years ago, when Jefferson dealt with the Barbary pirates. And centuries beyond that. Nothing new here. What the hell is with all of this moral relativism going on? We all know Islam is barbaric in its extremes. Why do people keep needing validation of this? Unless, of course, they're birthers building a case or a miserable human being looking for permission to kill someone.
To me, the real question is this: How do Western Muslims feel about these practices? What of 2ed and 3ed generation Muslim/Americans? What about Americans and European Muslims who have been in their respective nations for centuries, serving their nations and communities honorably? What about white American converts who attend Mosque?
I think we need to place more trust in the constitution, the judicial system, and the American spirit in general. Something like this has about as much chance of taking hold in America as Spanish being declared the national language by the Roberts Court. Cultural disdain is not going to change hearts and minds and it won't stop getting innocent people killed. The average Muslim, like your average Christian or Jew, say they believe a lot of things.
Last edited by Kev316; 12-12-10 at 12:33 AM.
I've always felt that a person's intelligence is directly reflected by the number of conflicting points of view he can entertain simultaneously on the same topic. - Abigail Adams
A lot of time has passed since 911 and Americans are becoming more anti Muslim than ever before. It isnít because Americans are bigots, itís because Muslim Americans are more Muslim than American.
(Center for Security Policy, Shariah : the Threat to America, pg. 30,pg. 229) There have been 16,501 terror attacks since 9/11 in the name of Islam, by Islamic terrorists. No religion even comes close to that. Islam's bloody 1400 year history is even worse. As for what incidents these murders took place, be real. You're asking for an itemized account of more than half a Billion murders, spread over 14 centuries ? That's about like asking to count and descibe every individual grain of sand on a large beach.
What I could do is relay some history of the conquest of one particular example of Islam's many places of conquest > Spain (from one of the great historians of medieval Europe). This is a particularly good example because so many stealth jihadists like to propagandize the Islamization of Spain as peaceful and beneficial to the Spaniards. Nothing could be further from the truth.
According to three important contemporary reports Fletcher summarizes, — one “crucial administrative document from the Islamic side,” some small “archaeological evidence” and the “Chronicle of 754,” an anonymous Christian narrative in Latin — after 711 Arab raids laid waste to “several provinces,” Tariq ibn Zayid’s army followed with fully equipped legions, who in 712 murdered Roderic of Spain.
North Africa’s governor then executed all Toledo’s prominent nobles (causing the Bishop to flee), devastated the countryside and perpetrated further destruction and mass murder in Zargoza and the Ebro valley. Upon returning to the Umayyad seat of power in Damascus, he transported innumerable enslaved Visigoth lords, and all their gold and jewels.
By 715, the next governor, Abd al-Aziz, conquered provinces throughout Iberia. Documents and archaeological excavations corroborate the arrival of Toledo’s Bishop in Rome and signs of 8th century devastation beside coins dated 711 to 713. In his April 713 treaty, Abd al-Aziz promised Theodemir lordship over, and free Christian practice throughout, seven southeastern towns. For this Abd al-Aziz extorted from Theodemir stiff annual head taxes of one silver dinar per person, all the region’s wheat, barley, unfermented grape juice, vinegar, honey and oil, and an inviolable promise not to help enemies of Spain’s Islamic conquerors.
From 718 through 720, As-Samh handed all Visigoth monarchy holdings to Arab Muslim governors, and gave all the less fertile land to the North African Berber Muslims. His generosity brought 150,000 to 200,000 Arab and Berber soldiers to Spain to usurp its wealth.
After the 750 Abbasids defeat of the Umayyads, in 762, the Islamic caliphate moved from Damascus to Baghdad. In 756 the Umayyad Abd al-Rahman escaped the Abbasid Caliph al-Saffah (“shedder of blood”) and established a rival Umayyad empire that ruled Spain until 1031. But the Umayyads continued to wreck havoc on Spain. Emir al Haken (796-822) kept a palace cavalry of 2,000 and a standing army of 60,000. In 805 alone, he crucified 72 people. In 818, he leveled Cordoba’s southern suburb. The military governors of the Umayyads’ three Spanish regions were constantly at war. In 884, for example, Burgos was destroyed “to its foundations.”
Even the reputedly enlightened Abd al-Rahman III (912-961) brutalized the population. At the Cordoba palace alone, he owned 3,750 slaves on his death in 961. On July 26 in 920, a Pyrenean monk at San Juan de la Pena recorded a slaughter in Valdejunquera, southwest of Pamplona. In 920, a three month campaign culminated on July 25 with a siege of the Muez castle. All “combatants” were “put to the sword,” including over 500 “counts and knights.” While returning to Cordoba, general al-Nasir totally destroyed many other villages too. The poet Ibn Abd Rabbihi later wrote the invaders left Osma “like a blackened piece of charcoal.”
In 976 Almanzor or Al-Mansur (“the victorious”) took power. In 977 he campaigned with his general against Leon. Some 56 campaigns followed in Almanzor’s rule alone. In 985, he sacked Barcelona and the San Cugat del Valles monastery. In 987, he plundered Coimbra (now in Portugal). In 995, he imprisoned the count of Castile, and destroyed Carrion and Astorga. In 997 he attacked Santiago de Compostela. In 999 he destroyed Pamplona and in 1002 flattened Roija and San Millan de la Cogolla monastery. Almonzor raided Catalonia in 1003; Castile in 1004; Leon in 1005; and Aragon in 1006. Almanzor himself described all war on Christians as Jihad. Christian subjects said he was “seized by the Devil.”
In the 11th century, Morocco’s Almoravids crossed the Atlas mountains, conquered its plain and then conquered Spain — which they ruled from 1080 until Fernando liberated most of the peninsula in 1248. “[N]oting can stand in their way,” wrote the Muslim historian Ibn Kahldun of Almoravid religious and military fervor, “for their outlook is the same and the object they desire is common to all and is one for which they are prepared to die.” Thus in 1148 alone, the Almohads massacred 100,000 Jews in Fez, 120,000 Jews in Marrakesh and wrecked devastation and death throughout Spain, from Seville to Tortosa.
In 1148, Jewish physician and philosopher Maimonides fled Cordoba’s Almohad persecution with his family disguised as Muslims. He found asylum in Fatimid Egypt. Arabs and Muslims had “persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us,” he later wrote. “Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they.” Maimonides’ 1172 Epistle to the [persecuted] Jews of Yemen that forced conversions they reported from Yemen, the Berbers had similarly forced upon Jews across the Maghreb and Spain. He described Mohammed as “the Madman,” despairing that the sole objective of his “invented … well known religion,” was “procuring rule and submission….”
(Richard Fletcher, Moorish Spain, University of California, 2006, 2nd ed., 206 pp.)
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Last edited by Protectionist; 12-12-10 at 01:19 AM.
E Pluribus Unum:
I don’t care if you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek.
It is the American culture and the American way.
If you are American first and foremost, I stand with you. If you are Muslim, Iraqi, Persian, Mexican, Swedish, German, Australian, Catholic, Hindu or Greek first, you are not welcome in America until you put America first.
Most Americans have no idea how far this Stealth Jihad has advanced.
Stealth Jihad, Robert Spencer.
They Must Be Stopped, Brigitte Gabriel.
Muslim Mafia, P. David Gaubatz, Paul Sperry:
Infiltration, Paul Sperry.
Center for Security Policy, Shariah : the Threat to America.