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Thread: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am still waiting for you to explain how people keeping their own money is an expense to the govt? Cooledge, JFK, Reagan, and GW Bush GAVE the American people nothing as that money was never theirs to give. Guess we need a little more of those California family values, right?
    Of course you don't. People like you want everything for free. Patriotism to you is waving a flag and wearing a lapel pin. You expect to live in this country and profit from its resources without having to pay back. Are those the values that you hold dear?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Now that the tax cuts have been extended, I will be looking forward to this recession ending and we have unemployment under 5%. That is all we needed, right? That question is for you conservatives who have been singing the rich man's songs about trickle down from the rich creating jobs....or will there be excuses?
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why do you guys always expect everything for free?

    Its always "it MY money"...."My Money"....."mine mine mine". Part of living in this country is paying for the services provided.

    I don't mind paying my taxes at all....I consider it part of being a responsible and patriotic American. I don't expect a free ride.
    See, there you go again, do you believe your money belongs to the govt? There is a difference between taxing someone and giving them something. So you believe Bush gave the Middle class a tax cut too? Guess Obama's support for letting those tax cuts continue is an expense to the govt. as well? How much is Obama adding to the debt with those tax cuts?

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Of course you don't. People like you want everything for free. Patriotism to you is waving a flag and wearing a lapel pin. You expect to live in this country and profit from its resources without having to pay back. Are those the values that you hold dear?
    Keep ranting and diverting from the question, do you think you keeping more of what you earn is an expense to the govt?

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry...but if you cannot understand how continuing 2 trillion in tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans without funding them will not add to the deficit....then nothing I can say here will help you. THAT is basic econ 101.
    You don't "fund" tax cuts, you DEfund other areas of government to prevent a deficit.

    "Funding" tax cuts would imply that the government was giving money to the taxpayers, when in fact, it's a case of the government receiving less from the taxpayers in the first place.

    A small distinction, perhaps, but I feel it needs to be made.
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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry...but if you cannot understand how continuing 2 trillion in tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans without funding them will not add to the deficit....then nothing I can say here will help you. THAT is basic econ 101.
    NOT getting money doesn't ADD to anything. If you owe $100 dollars and I don't give you $10 that I said I would give you I don't magically make you owe $100 dollars...you still owe $100. Its not ADDING to anything. Its subtracting from theoretical revenue that may've potentially came in the future, but that is far different from ADDING to something.

    Spending government money on health care adds to the deficit. Spending government money on Aids relief in Africa adds to the deficit. And yes, fighting the war in Afghanistan adds to the deficit. Charging people the same amount of money tomorrow as they were charged today doesn't ADD to the deficit.

    This can't even be fully compared to the Bush Tax Cuts because the CURRENT tax code is the only thing guaranteed. The higher tax codes that COULD'VE come were not, they were nothing but theoretical. Unlike the Bush Tax cuts this isn't changing it from the Government taking in X money to Y money, where X > Y. This is a case where the government is taking in Y money, and will continue to take in Y money, as opposed to theoretically having had the potential to take in X but that never being guaranteed.

    For it to be "adding" to the deficit people would have to be getting something new they weren't previously getting....that's not the case.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why do you guys always expect everything for free?

    Its always "it MY money"...."My Money"....."mine mine mine". Part of living in this country is paying for the services provided.
    I don't expect things for free. What is up for debate is what should the federal govt do with the tax dollars it collects? What is up for debate is what services the govt. should provide. What is up for debate is how much federal/state/local taxes one should pay.

    I pay my taxes. I also live within my means. I make decisions on what I can and cannot afford. Let me ask you, do you think the govt is living within its means? Are you willing to pay more taxes for the govt to provide more "services" without making cuts in other areas to offset costs? IMO, the whole federal budget needs to be revamped from the ground up.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Now that the tax cuts have been extended, I will be looking forward to this recession ending and we have unemployment under 5%. That is all we needed, right? That question is for you conservatives who have been singing the rich man's songs about trickle down from the rich creating jobs....or will there be excuses?
    Why in the world would something STAYING THE SAME suddenly cause a massive change? The argument is that by doing this it will keep it from getting worse, not that it'll be a magical cure all. There's far, far more things wrong with the economy right now than simply the tax level, and keeping it the same as before isn't going to magically fix it.

    Much like tieing a tourniquet around a wound isn't going to magically make the wound go away; its just going to keep it from getting worse.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why do you guys always expect everything for free?

    Its always "it MY money"...."My Money"....."mine mine mine". Part of living in this country is paying for the services provided.

    I don't mind paying my taxes at all....I consider it part of being a responsible and patriotic American. I don't expect a free ride.
    Yes...if only there were people who were calling for many of those frivilous services to stop being provided. Hmm, who could that be.....

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Now that the tax cuts have been extended, I will be looking forward to this recession ending and we have unemployment under 5%. That is all we needed, right? That question is for you conservatives who have been singing the rich man's songs about trickle down from the rich creating jobs....or will there be excuses?
    If it doesn't work, it will be the other guy's fault.

    If it works, it will be everyone's fault.

    More seriously, I've noticed this extremely irritating tendency among the whole economic/political crossroads/swamp.

    Economic woes are NEVER tied to one cause, but 50 different people will give you 50 different specific reasons that the economic woes are the opposing parties fault.

    And no one is ever WRONG about their reasons, damnit, it’s always “oh, something the other guy did 1,5,10,25,or 50 years ago” is the reason!

    It’s the ultimate goalpost moving argument, it seems.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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