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Thread: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    back on target conservative, stay on target, stay on topic...you have yet to provide where i have ever called the rich 'evil'....still waiting for an apology and a retraction of your statement.....you must be so embarrassed, admitting you do no actual research, no need to 'delve' into something further, if it supports your view.
    Keep diverting, randel, as that is all you can do. I gave you the sites showing actual data which of course you ignored. I continue to give the Obama economic results which you ignore. As usual actual data doesn't matter to a political ideologue. Going to those sites you would see that I posted that actual data but then that would destroy your "feelings" about how great liberalism and Obamanomics are. How in the world can such beautiful rhetoric lead to such terrible results? In the words of Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain."

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Keep diverting, randel, as that is all you can do. I gave you the sites showing actual data which of course you ignored. I continue to give the Obama economic results which you ignore. As usual actual data doesn't matter to a political ideologue. Going to those sites you would see that I posted that actual data but then that would destroy your "feelings" about how great liberalism and Obamanomics are. How in the world can such beautiful rhetoric lead to such terrible results? In the words of Bill Clinton, "I feel your pain."
    put up or shut up conservative, please show where i have ever called the rich 'evil'...i'm expecting a retraction and an apology...all you are doing now is spinning your wheels, you have come to the realization that you have yet again lost an argument, and have started into your spiel....

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    put up or shut up conservative, please show where i have ever called the rich 'evil'...i'm expecting a retraction and an apology...all you are doing now is spinning your wheels, you have come to the realization that you have yet again lost an argument, and have started into your spiel....
    Randel, I don't blame you from diverting from the results. Liberals just cannot figure out how they have been duped by an ideology and thus cannot admit it. The results are what they are, you don't like it, tough, those are the facts.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Randel, I don't blame you from diverting from the results. Liberals just cannot figure out how they have been duped by an ideology and thus cannot admit it. The results are what they are, you don't like it, tough, those are the facts.
    anything you put off as being 'fact', with your own admission that you can't be bothered to 'delve' into something, to further check on somethng, since you can't be bothered to show interest in learning more about something you consider to be a fact, anything you put forward i will take with a HUGE grain of salt...by the way, still waiting for that retraction and apology.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    anything you put off as being 'fact', with your own admission that you can't be bothered to 'delve' into something, to further check on somethng, since you can't be bothered to show interest in learning more about something you consider to be a fact, anything you put forward i will take with a HUGE grain of salt...by the way, still waiting for that retraction and apology.
    Economic numbers are fact, they are actual data, the unemployment is real, the debt is real, the GDP is real, Obamacare is real. Delve into those numbers and tell me why they exist. I know why they exist, the Obama economic policies failed so now he is going back to supply side. Think Obama wanted to admit that the extension of the Bush tax cuts are good for the American people? For two years he wasted over a trillion dollar stimulus plan that generated 4 million more unemployed and added 3 trillion to the debt. He has his rear handed to him on Nov. 2 and thus has admitted his policies have failed. Only the true diehards are still defending him.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    put up or shut up conservative, please show where i have ever called the rich 'evil'...i'm expecting a retraction and an apology...all you are doing now is spinning your wheels, you have come to the realization that you have yet again lost an argument, and have started into your spiel....
    a spiel of "thoughts" that can be summed up in few enough words to fit on a few bumper stickers....

    I don't think I have read on DP where anybody really believes that the rich are evil...but certainly a portion of the rich are crooks. Some of them are already in prison, others are awaiting trial.
    Entrepenuers who create entire industries are to be applauded, they create many jobs along the way, and increase our productivity.
    They should be rich, they deserve it, but the crooks on Wall Street do not deserve to be rich. They deserve to be imprisoned.
    They are destroying the economy for personal gain.

    When extreme liberals go to prison, it is for some whacked out idealism that is the opposite of extreme conservative whacked out idealism, but I think it is safe to say that imprisoned liberals have done far less harm to the economy.
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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    a spiel of "thoughts" that can be summed up in few enough words to fit on a few bumper stickers....

    I don't think I have read on DP where anybody really believes that the rich are evil...but certainly a portion of the rich are crooks. Some of them are already in prison, others are awaiting trial.
    Entrepenuers who create entire industries are to be applauded, they create many jobs along the way, and increase our productivity.
    They should be rich, they deserve it, but the crooks on Wall Street do not deserve to be rich. They deserve to be imprisoned.
    They are destroying the economy for personal gain.

    When extreme liberals go to prison, it is for some whacked out idealism that is the opposite of extreme conservative whacked out idealism, but I think it is safe to say that imprisoned liberals have done far less harm to the economy.
    Except that a large percentage of the Wall Street rich you describe are liberals. A bunch of them. Aristocratic liberals is what I call them.

    They're untouchable by taxes at this point because their fortunes have already been made through political deals through Wall Street. They seem to most resent the entrepreneurial route to wealth.

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What you seem to lack is a basic understanding of non partisan facts and actual data. There is nothing to understand or reason to delve into how they arrived "at their conclusions." The data is the data and came from the actual results. You don't like the data then change the results, don't attack the messenger.

    Your passion for the liberal ideology is hard to understand. Data refutes that ideology but it appears that you simply cannot accept actual data and facts.
    I think there's real room for agreement on this issue. I don't know about anyone else, but I gather that neither of us want the taxes at 50%, and neither of us want them at 0%. It's a question of where in between here we should place them. You think the top tax rate should be 35%, others think it should be 39.6%, less than a 5% difference. Additionally, I agree with you entirely for 80% of the population, and disagree every now and then for the other 20%. This isn't a huge divide. Why do you draw the line at 35%? Cut em to 10% or 5%.

    I agree with you mostly in terms of economic growth, but disagree in terms of tax revenue, at least as it stands.

    This is an interesting paper if you get time, on laffer curve economics, which can be found here

    Should we have tax rates at the maximum point of the laffer curve? No, you have to take economic growth into account.

    Also, I take it you were throwing it at someone else, but I have no particular passion for the "liberal ideology", in case you haven't figured that one out yet

    Thanks!

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    a spiel of "thoughts" that can be summed up in few enough words to fit on a few bumper stickers....

    I don't think I have read on DP where anybody really believes that the rich are evil...but certainly a portion of the rich are crooks. Some of them are already in prison, others are awaiting trial.
    Entrepenuers who create entire industries are to be applauded, they create many jobs along the way, and increase our productivity.
    They should be rich, they deserve it, but the crooks on Wall Street do not deserve to be rich. They deserve to be imprisoned.
    They are destroying the economy for personal gain.

    When extreme liberals go to prison, it is for some whacked out idealism that is the opposite of extreme conservative whacked out idealism, but I think it is safe to say that imprisoned liberals have done far less harm to the economy.
    I wonder what people who horde money, don't pay a decent wage, don't hire people that they need, don't pay their fair share in taxes should be called?

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    Re: Obama Announces 'Framework' for Deal With Congress to Extend Bush-Era Tax Cuts

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    I think there's real room for agreement on this issue. I don't know about anyone else, but I gather that neither of us want the taxes at 50%, and neither of us want them at 0%. It's a question of where in between here we should place them. You think the top tax rate should be 35%, others think it should be 39.6%, less than a 5% difference. Additionally, I agree with you entirely for 80% of the population, and disagree every now and then for the other 20%. This isn't a huge divide. Why do you draw the line at 35%? Cut em to 10% or 5%.

    I agree with you mostly in terms of economic growth, but disagree in terms of tax revenue, at least as it stands.

    This is an interesting paper if you get time, on laffer curve economics, which can be found here

    Should we have tax rates at the maximum point of the laffer curve? No, you have to take economic growth into account.

    Also, I take it you were throwing it at someone else, but I have no particular passion for the "liberal ideology", in case you haven't figured that one out yet

    Thanks!
    That post was directed at another poster, not you. I don't know anyone here proposing a zero tax rate but there definitely is a problem when 47% of the people in this country don't pay anything in Federal Income taxes and that is the point.

    I don't see how taking more money from the rich is going to make a difference with regard to the deficit or debt as history shows it won't make a difference and even if it does it is a drop in the bucket amounting to 70 billion or so in revenue which cuts the 1.3 trillion deficit to 1.23 trillion. Wow!

    What that does do however is set a dangerous precedence and that should concern everyone. I wonder how many people here think their income and keeping more of it is an expense to the govt?

    As I have stated many times we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Much of what the Federal Govt. is spending on duplicates state and local expenses thus is wasted, It really is time to get back to the basic principles upon which this country was built, small, limited central govt. and personal responsibilities.

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