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List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

Kal'Stang said:
The difference is that wikileaks is actually doing it's job of being a watchdog on governments.

I actually find it kind of ironic that it takes an outside news type organization to be the watchdog against our government when our own news media does not do so...even though our FF's expected it of them. I guess that shows that all our news media really cares about is the $$'s and not the truth.
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Since the war on terror began, more information than ever before has been labeled as classified. U.S. media outlets are rightfully concerned about being sued/prosecuted for releasing information on governmental abuses.

I don't think that's a scenario that is good for the American public.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
P.s. How is this different than the situation with the Pentagon Papers?

Pentagon Papers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Pentagon Papers exposed the government's misleading public statements, among other things. Releasing an inventory of strategic sites has nothing to do with government deception, corruption, illegal activity. It merely provides a convenient "one-stop" location by which the nation's enemies can gain access to the nation's vulnerabilities/areas it feel have strategic importance. There is a world of difference.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Strawman. This has NOTHING to do with the Obama administration, it could just as easily have happened under Bush, it's an exploitation of an existing situation in which many hundreds of thousands of people had access to information that they did not need access to.
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Except that they are in charge and responsible for everything that happens during their administration. You seem not to know that part.

Have you considered reading the newspaper to get up to speed?
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I read several thank you. That's how I knew this occured during mr obama's administration.


So. You have zero facts and this is just a thinly veiled attack on a president you don't like in lieu of contributing substantive thought to this thread.

Duly noted.
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Let's see. I am aware there are important leaks that can and will affect american diplomacy and supporters of the us. It was done because of a private in the us army with a political ax to grind because mr obama didn't live up to his promises to gays (according to said private) and this is all occuring during mr obama's administration which "seems" absolutely inefectual in dealing with the situation. No, I'm pretty sure we all understand just what is happening.


Just what we needed on this thread, more mindless partisan shilling.
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...................says the partisan liberal.......:roll:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
How are you able to make the call that publishing these strategic inventories isn't related to abusive or unlawful practices? Are you actually going to claim that the U.S. wouldn't/hasn't done unethical and/or abusive things to protect those strategic assets?
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The inventory is a list. Nothing more.

Furthermore, as there is no nation in the history of the world that has not engaged, at times, in unethical or abusive things to further its interests, the U.S. is no exception. Of course, like any other sovereign state, the U.S. can and should safeguard its interests.
 
Orion said:
Am I the only person in this world that thinks that while state security is important, that maybe if countries and officials conducted themselves and their affairs with honesty, integrity, and transparency, that maybe people like Assange wouldn't be able to garner any kind of attention at all?
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Maybe we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, too.
 
donsutherland1 said:
The inventory is a list. Nothing more.

Furthermore, as there is no nation in the history of the world that has not engaged, at times, in unethical or abusive things to further its interests, the U.S. is no exception. Of course, like any other sovereign state, the U.S. can and should safeguard its interests.
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Now there's a concept one that is ,strangely, beyond the comprehension of some of our erstwhile american liberals/leftists. Odd. :confused:
 
donsutherland1 said:
The Pentagon Papers exposed the government's misleading public statements, among other things. Releasing an inventory of strategic sites has nothing to do with government deception, corruption, illegal activity. It merely provides a convenient "one-stop" location by which the nation's enemies can gain access to the nation's vulnerabilities/areas it feel have strategic importance. There is a world of difference.
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I think this is a reach on your part. Understanding what we consider to be strategic advantages is extremely important in interpreting our policy decisions and the actions of our state department and military.

Most of the data that's gotten you so atwitter is public information that could (and likely has) already been tallied by our enemies. If it were truly secret and damaging, it would have been classified at a much higher level of secrecy. And, we both know that, Don. Overstating the harm is unhelpful.
 
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Dutch said:
Except that they are in charge and responsible for everything that happens during their administration. You seem not to know that part.
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This could have happened under at least 4 or 5 administrations, because the same situation existed. Putting special blame on the Obama administration for the exploitation of a long-standing security weakness is simply stupid.
...................says the partisan liberal.......:roll:
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I disagree with your piss poor reasoning, thus I must be a liberal? Someone has been listening to too much Glenn Beck. :roll:
 
donsutherland1 said:
Furthermore, as there is no nation in the history of the world that has not engaged, at times, in unethical or abusive things to further its interests, the U.S. is no exception. Of course, like any other sovereign state, the U.S. can and should safeguard its interests.
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I believe it would be in our best interests to focus on closing these classified information breaches and stop waving our sword at a foreign national who hasn't broken (and isn't subject to) our laws. ;)
 
Kal'Stang said:
No he didn't steal anything. Manning stole that information and then gave it to Asaunge. That is not stealing no matter what anyone else says or thinks. It might be recieving stolen material but it is not stealing. There is a difference.
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Somebody stole it and he recieved it either way laws were broken
 
ptif219 said:
Somebody stole it and he recieved it either way laws were broken
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What laws were broken, Honorable Ptif, Esquire? Be specific. And were they broken under our jurisdiction, or in a country in which our laws have zero jurisdiction?
 
Catz Part Deux said:
What laws were broken, Honorable Ptif, Esquire? Be specific. And were they broken under our jurisdiction, or in a country in which our laws have zero jurisdiction?
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Classified material was released without government permission. A leaker is illegally releasing information.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
This could have happened under at least 4 or 5 administrations, because the same situation existed. Putting special blame on the Obama administration for the exploitation of a long-standing security weakness is simply stupid.
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.....and yet, it didn't. :confused:



I disagree with your piss poor reasoning, thus I must be a liberal? Someone has been listening to too much Glenn Beck. :roll:
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Nooo, that would be your posts that qualify you as an american liberal/leftist. Don't be afraid of who/what you are. Embrace your liberalness/leftness? Be proud to call yourself an american liberal/leftist. Continue to pretend you are a european when no one is about. It's ok. Just be who/what you wanna' be there big guy. :lamo

As an aside, I don't actually like glenn beck. Continue to demean him all you want. :mrgreen:
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I believe it would be in our best interests to focus on closing these classified information breaches and stop waving our sword at a foreign national who hasn't broken (and isn't subject to) our laws. ;)
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I disagree. While I strongly support fixing up the vulnerabilities that led to the leaks, sharply curtailing the audience who can receive such info., etc., I believe it is essential for the U.S. to pursue Mr. Assange if it is to effectively deter future conduct along the lines of Wikileaks. A lack of effort to hold Mr. Assange/Wikileaks accountable would undermine prospects for any credible deterrence regime.
 
ptif219 said:
Classified material was released without government permission. A leaker is illegally releasing information.
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The one that stole the information is the one that leaked the information. Since wikileaks did not steal the information they are not the ones that leaked the information. They just posted the already leaked information.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
What laws were broken, Honorable Ptif, Esquire? Be specific. And were they broken under our jurisdiction, or in a country in which our laws have zero jurisdiction?
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If they can prosecute him, they will. There's been no definitive decision -- unless you're making it here.
 
ptif219 said:
Classified material was released without government permission. A leaker is illegally releasing information.
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That leaker is being charged and prosecuted. Can you explain what Julian Assange has done that is illegal?
 
MaggieD said:
If they can prosecute him, they will. There's been no definitive decision -- unless you're making it here.
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The simple fact that they have not charged him with anything despite the fact that it is quite obvious that Mr. Asaunge has published this info would indicate that they have no clear right in prosecuting him legally. It doesn't take years (using pentagon papers for a starting point) to come up with charges for something so obvious.
 
MaggieD said:
If they can prosecute him, they will. There's been no definitive decision -- unless you're making it here.
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What I'm telling you is that...

1) I don't believe that the action he took was illegal based upon our existing laws.
2) We have zero jurisdiction in this case (It did not occur in the U.S.).
3) We have zero jurisdiction over Assange (he is not a U.S. citizen and is not subject to our laws).

Should we prosecute him? If we do, I guarantee that it will result in a bigger black eye than these leaks ever would have.

Let me ask you... can Kenya prosecute him for releasing information on the killings of approximately 500 young men with tacit governmental and law enforcement support? Would you support them doing so? How is the situation with Kenya different than the situation with the U.S. leaks?
 
Kal'Stang said:
Yes laws were broken. But not by wikileaks.
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So releasing known stolen info is not illegal. He did not go through proper channels so I think the Attorney General can find a law he broke.
 
ptif219 said:
So releasing known stolen info is not illegal. He did not go through proper channels so I think the Attorney General can find a law he broke.
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Because that's totally how we should do business, as a country.

God help us all...
 
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