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Thread: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

  1. #61
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Posted by Kandahar, on this thread, matter of fact:
    Problem is.. this aint defence material, but State Department material.. Unless you are saying the State Department is now part of the Defence Department...
    PeteEU

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Any serious terrorist group or world government would already know all of the locations on that list. It's redundant information.

    Am I the only person in this world that thinks that while state security is important, that maybe if countries and officials conducted themselves and their affairs with honesty, integrity, and transparency, that maybe people like Assange wouldn't be able to garner any kind of attention at all?

    Example: My colleagues and I correspond on a continuous basis by email. If our email servers were hacked, and our emails published, I can guarantee you that none of our clients would be overly distressed or surprised. And that includes several that have some fairly bad words in them.

    So, if the company that I work for can keep our chatter and planning civil, how is it that entire branches of government - who are accountable to multiple layers of supervision and oversight - can't even seem to make a simple communique fit to be read by the community at large?

    People have no right to be angry at Assange. He is a media agent. If you value free speech then you shouldn't care. The problem is the sources that are leaking the info within your own country. Take responsibility for your own actions. Hypocrites.
    Yes, indeed, why can't everyone be like you and your friends. Life would be so much better. We wouldn't even need police, much less the court system.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world,...

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    He's publishing information that he did not steal. Exactly what rights do you think we have, legally speaking?
    Of course he stole them.

    Do you think he took them with permission??

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Problem is.. this aint defence material, but State Department material.. Unless you are saying the State Department is now part of the Defence Department...
    You don't think the two have anythng in common, that they don't share intelligence?


    Incredible!

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course he stole them.

    Do you think he took them with permission??
    No he didn't steal anything. Manning stole that information and then gave it to Asaunge. That is not stealing no matter what anyone else says or thinks. It might be recieving stolen material but it is not stealing. There is a difference.
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No he didn't steal anything. Manning stole that information and then gave it to Asaunge. That is not stealing no matter what anyone else says or thinks. It might be recieving stolen material but it is not stealing. There is a difference.
    Ownership of that information did not pass to Mr. Assange. He had no more legal right to release it than if an individual received a car he knew had been stolen and then sold that car to another person. While broad protections exist with regard to media organizations, Wikileaks is not a journalistic organization. Moreover, Mr. Assange's releasing an inventory of strategic installations/facilities and engaging in blackmail threats makes clear that his pursuit has little to do with media freedom/transparency--even if that is the packaging he uses--but is instead aimed at damaging U.S. interests. Like any other sovereign state, the U.S. should not let Mr. Assange assail the nation's interests with impunity and, I believe, it won't.

    In the end, should Mr. Assange will bear complete accountability for his fate (any prosecution, any conviction, any restitution/forfeiture of assets, etc., that could be imposed). He is no "innocent victim" of persecution. His decisions/choices subjected him to multiple legal risks that he chose to assume in his zealous bid to undermine U.S. interests. On that front, it should be noted that the pending sex-related charges are just the beginning of his legal battles. That he opened at least one financial account with fraudulent information in which he claimed a Swiss residence creates an additional point of prosecution. Moreover, as each of his transactions is examined, there very likely will be others from which legal issues arise. The cumulative impact of those legal matters could be substantial.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Problem is.. this aint defence material, but State Department material.. Unless you are saying the State Department is now part of the Defence Department...
    Under the Espionage Act, anyone who has "unauthorized possession to information relating to the national defense" and has reason to believe it could harm the United States may be prosecuted if he publishes it or "willfully" retains it when the government has demanded its return, Smith said.
    Smith is a former CIA General Counsel. Perhaps the "relating to national defense" which this material certainly does, makes the difference. It does seem to be a grey area, though.

    Would seem to me that "in possession of stolen property" ought to be a slam dunk, if they want to bother.
    WikiLeaks founder could be charged under Espionage Act
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Ownership of that information did not pass to Mr. Assange. He had no more legal right to release it than if an individual received a car he knew had been stolen and then sold that car to another person. While broad protections exist with regard to media organizations, Wikileaks is not a journalistic organization.
    What are the differences between a journalistic organization and wikileaks? This is kind of like the claim that wateboarding isn't torture.

    Do we have a commitment to a free press or not? Do we have a commitment to having a government that is accountable to the people, or not?

    This information wasn't particularly dangerous. It was not classified as top secret. And no, I don't believe that Mr. Assange is going to be charged with violating the Espionage Act.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Ownership of that information did not pass to Mr. Assange. He had no more legal right to release it than if an individual received a car he knew had been stolen and then sold that car to another person. While broad protections exist with regard to media organizations, Wikileaks is not a journalistic organization. Moreover, Mr. Assange's releasing an inventory of strategic installations/facilities and engaging in blackmail threats makes clear that his pursuit has little to do with media freedom/transparency--even if that is the packaging he uses--but is instead aimed at damaging U.S. interests. Like any other sovereign state, the U.S. should not let Mr. Assange assail the nation's interests with impunity and, I believe, it won't.

    In the end, should Mr. Assange will bear complete accountability for his fate (any prosecution, any conviction, any restitution/forfeiture of assets, etc., that could be imposed). He is no "innocent victim" of persecution. His decisions/choices subjected him to multiple legal risks that he chose to assume in his zealous bid to undermine U.S. interests. On that front, it should be noted that the pending sex-related charges are just the beginning of his legal battles. That he opened at least one financial account with fraudulent information in which he claimed a Swiss residence creates an additional point of prosecution. Moreover, as each of his transactions is examined, there very likely will be others from which legal issues arise. The cumulative impact of those legal matters could be substantial.
    Your example of the car is not the same as what is going on. See in our country there's this little thing called "free press". They have a constitutional right to publish anything that is put into their hands regardless of what the government says. They also have a right to post anything that they want regardless of what their intentions are. So even if Asaunge is doing all this out of some kind of hatred towards the US it matters not one iota.

    The FF's of this country expected and wanted the free press. One of them (sorry can't remember which one atm) even equated the press as a watchdog on the government.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    What are the differences between a journalistic organization and wikileaks? This is kind of like the claim that wateboarding isn't torture.
    The difference is that wikileaks is actually doing it's job of being a watchdog on governments.

    I actually find it kind of ironic that it takes an outside news type organization to be the watchdog against our government when our own news media does not do so...even though our FF's expected it of them. I guess that shows that all our news media really cares about is the $$'s and not the truth.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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