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Thread: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

  1. #131
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Thank God for that. Would you seriously wish to adopt a system where you could be incarcerated for expressing concerns about the safety of the milk industry?
    I would do fine in China except for my big mouth. That would get me reeducated or killed.

  2. #132
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The danger of your government "protecting" you from terrorism by withholding crucial information is not remote. It is ongoing. A scared populace is a biddable and compliant populace. Say the word terrorism, and the American federal agencies now believe they can abuse any civil liberties and withold any information from the voters they are answerable to.

    One might well ask why our media outlets aren't reporting these stories like they used to, back in the 1970s.
    You mean like with global warmage?
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    You mean like with global warmage?
    Is it possible for you to 1) stay on topic and 2) post in a normal font?

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Thank God for that. Would you seriously wish to adopt a system where you could be incarcerated for expressing concerns about the safety of the milk industry?
    .......and they say american liberals/leftists hate america. Imagine the idea!
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Is it possible for you to 1) stay on topic and 2) post in a normal font?
    I like my "font" and the topic was..........fear. I felt it was relevant.
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

  6. #136
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    I note your use of the word ATTACKED. What sites were actually attacked? Or, are you simply peevish that we've been caught with our knickers around our ankles?
    The sites weren't attacked; U.S. interests were. He exposed the sites to increased risk by publicizing them as being strategic to the U.S. In doing so, he attacked U.S. interests.

    The U.S. has zero international right to police the release of information that we failed to secure.
    The source of U.S. authority to safeguard its interests comes from the U.S. Constitution. There is nothing that prohibits the U.S. from taking appropriate measures to safeguard its critical interests. My guess is that some of those measures will become evident in coming weeks and months.

    What laws has Julian Assange broken, Don, for which we should hold him accountable?
    The U.S. Attorney General and the U.S. Department of Justice are reviewing the legal aspects of that matter. The recent attempt at blackmail likely constitutes one example where there is little ambiguity. Potential cases of wire and financial fraud probably offer a rich range of possible charges.

    We can argue that it was unethical and not very nice for him to release our classified files, but it does not appear to be illegal.
    Ultimately, we'll find out whether your description is accurate (if he is not convicted) or whether, in fact, his actions were illegal. For now, he's merely at the beginning of his legal issues. Those will very likely multiply in coming weeks. That he may have committed financial fraud in setting up his financing apparatus e.g., as in the case in Switzerland where he knowingly made a false claim of Swiss residence, is one line of legal recourse.

    Thus, accountability lies with us, for leaving our asses flapping in the breeze.
    Of course, the U.S. also bears some responsibility. The idea that instructions to diplomats to conduct surveillance (widespread in the diplomatic realm) were put in writing is rank amateur work. Traditionally, those matters are kept covert. Instructions are not recorded in any fashion. The excessive access to classified information among government civilian and military personnel and contractors is another huge issue. Be that as it may, those issues do not confer on Mr. Assange immunity for his actions. In fact, my guess is that it is probably more likely than not that Mr. Assange will ultimately be imprisoned, and not solely on sex-related charges.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    .......and they say american liberals/leftists hate america. Imagine the idea!
    What are you yammering about now? Are you unaware that the Chinese government just incarcerated a man for speaking out against the tainted milk that killed his son?

    Would you like to see us turn into a fascist regime with zero free speech where the Government tells us what we can know?

  8. #138
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Must be something since the US is seeking extradition.

    How the U.S. can now extradite Assange - WikiLeaks - Salon.com
    From your link...

    Attorney Douglas McNabb, who specializes in federal criminal defense and international extradition cases, says that extradition requests can also be made under seal. And he has had clients who have been the subject of Interpol Red Notices -- the international call for arrest that Sweden used to pursue Assange last week -- that have not been released publicly. So it's possible that the U.S. is already using these avenues.
    Note that they italisized the word "possible" in that paragraph. So depsite your assertion that the US is seeking extradition you don't know for sure. You just know that it is possible that they might be.

    There is a big difference between "possible" and "is".
    Last edited by Kal'Stang; 12-07-10 at 04:01 PM.
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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    The danger in our society is NOT that the terrorists will get their hands on information. The danger is that the American public WON'T.

    What separates us from Kenya or China or Cuba if average Americans aren't entitled to the truth about our government's actions and dirty deals?
    I know. I am really disturbed by the willful ignorance we are seeing. The militantism is getting out of hand and the government is gaining way too much power because of it.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The sites weren't attacked; U.S. interests were. He exposed the sites to increased risk by publicizing them as being strategic to the U.S. In doing so, he attacked U.S. interests.
    Oh. So, by talking about factories and oil refineries and whatnot, he attacked our interests. Is that illegal?

    Tell me, Don. Do you really think that the entities which mean us harm are unaware of our vulnerabilities?

    The source of U.S. authority to safeguard its interests comes from the U.S. Constitution. There is nothing that prohibits the U.S. from taking appropriate measures to safeguard its critical interests. My guess is that some of those measures will become evident in coming weeks and months.
    In my opinion, those appropriate measures should be taken internally, and should not include brandishing the sword of threatened prosecution at a non-U.S. citizen who hasn't violated our laws and isn't accountable to them, anyway. That just makes us look rather pathetic.

    The U.S. Attorney General and the U.S. Department of Justice are reviewing the legal aspects of that matter. The recent attempt at blackmail likely constitutes one example where there is little ambiguity. Potential cases of wire and financial fraud probably offer a rich range of possible charges.
    Well, we'll all be waiting with bated breath to see the outcome of your legal accumen.

    Ultimately, we'll find out whether your description is accurate (if he is not convicted) or whether, in fact, his actions were illegal. For now, he's merely at the beginning of his legal issues. Those will very likely multiply in coming weeks. That he may have committed financial fraud in setting up his financing apparatus e.g., as in the case in Switzerland where he knowingly made a false claim of Swiss residence, is one line of legal recourse.
    Yes, by all means, we should silence all sources of information and embarrassment by pressuring our allies into prosecuting Assange.

    Of course, the U.S. also bears some responsibility. The idea that instructions to diplomats to conduct surveillance (widespread in the diplomatic realm) were put in writing is rank amateur work. Traditionally, those matters are kept covert. Instructions are not recorded in any fashion. The excessive access to classified information among government civilian and military personnel and contractors is another huge issue. Be that as it may, those issues do not confer on Mr. Assange immunity for his actions. In fact, my guess is that it is probably more likely than not that Mr. Assange will ultimately be imprisoned, and not solely on sex-related charges.
    We are all guessing, regardless.

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