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Thread: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    I've never seen such a large gathering of jailhouse lawyers. Let's cut to the chase.

    The Espionage Act and Patriot Act (which Obama renewed without change) are sweeping. America has a long arm statute so personal jurisdiction is no problem. If Assange falls into American hands he'll be caught in a web from which he will never emerge.
    If this occurs, the effects on our image worldwide will truly be dire.

    A far larger concern, for me, is the power that the federal government is accruing by designating routine information as classified and hiding it from the American public. No democracy (or constitutional republic) can function in that way. It completely undermines civil liberties, the rule of law, and the power of the citizenry.

    Doesn't it worry you, this increasing power of the governmental agencies, to hide routine information from the American public, in the guise of protecting us? Why are you people so trusting of your government's every assurance?

    If our government will trump up charges to prosecute Julian Assange (who isn't even a citizen of this country and did not commit his "crimes" here), what can they then do to you?

    This should alarm you far more than what Assange has leaked.
    Last edited by Catz Part Deux; 12-07-10 at 03:03 PM.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If this occurs, the effects on our image worldwide will truly be dire.
    I don't think so. Every other country is asking themselves, "What would we do if it happened to us?" The answer many of those countries would come up with wouldn't be pretty.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    So you see zero value to the work that Assange has done in releasing information about more repressive regimes like Kenya and China? The world doesn't have a right to see that information? Our embarrassment trumps all?



    Perhaps I'm tired of our deterrence regime (aka being the bullies of the world). That's not our role in the world, or at least, it shouldn't be. I'm fairly certain our founding fathers didn't envision our current "deterrence regime."
    I agree with your conclusion, but for very different reasons. If America has a "deterrence regime" it cannot have a really small govt. incapable of imposing leftist dogma on the citizenry. I'm willing to get rid of the Empire, but only in exchange for a small govt.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    Sheer dumb luck. But you can't really see past your "Obama is the Devil" glasses, can you?
    You mean as opposed to...........obama isn't actually in charge of that department........
    He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire. ~ Winston Churchill

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    If this occurs, the effects on our image worldwide will truly be dire.

    A far larger concern, for me, is the power that the federal government is accruing by designating routine information as classified and hiding it from the American public. No democracy (or constitutional republic) can function in that way. It completely undermines civil liberties, the rule of law, and the power of the citizenry.

    Doesn't it worry you, this increasing power of the governmental agencies, to hide routine information from the American public, in the guise of protecting us? Why are you people so trusting of your government?
    A weak federal govt. isn't a threat. It's time for the federal govt. to become small and weak.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't think so. Every other country is asking themselves, "What would we do if it happened to us?" The answer many of those countries would come up with wouldn't be pretty.
    We already know what China would do...so of course, we should do what they'd do, right?

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Catz, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. One thing that is happening in the world now really quietly is the globalization and streamlining of freedom of speech and press laws. You can bet that after this Wikileaks incident, there is going to be international pressure (mostly from the U.S.) on Australia and Sweden to tighten laws concerning what people are allowed to publicize.

    Assange has not really broken any laws. He didn't steal information. Throughout the history of the press there has always been the brown envelop slipped under the door by whistle blowers, and the press just does their job. It doesn't really matter to me if Wikileaks is an official journalistic agency or not. They are couriers of information in the public domain and thus they enjoy the same rights and freedoms that any of us do.

    The fact that people are so readily calling for the U.S. to not only violate international law but the ideals of its own Constitution in apprehending one man is frankly very telling of the shape of things to come... or at least how the current players in power WANT things to be.

    Assange is innocent, and a free man. Australia and Sweden are not States in the U.S. so your government has no damn business trying to nab him. He embarrassed you by telling the truth and that is pretty much it. Everyone knows what a joke U.S. foreign policy is, but now we can see it in full light.

    I do think though that after this, the laws which permit Wikileaks to exist are going to be forcefully changed by the neo-cons on an international level. No one will want this to happen again. Assange just handed himself over to Swedish authorities to address the rape allegation (note: not charge), and I fear for his safety. The U.S. is no doubt going to pressure Sweden to hand him over. I think Sweden should flip the U.S. the bird.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    A weak federal govt. isn't a threat. It's time for the federal govt. to become small and weak.
    A federal government that can completely stifle public discourse by deeming certain topics "classified" is neither weak nor small. If you really wanted a small/weak federalist government, you'd see the dangers here.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
    We already know what China would do...so of course, we should do what they'd do, right?
    This wouldn't happen to China. The Chinese are refreshingly ruthless. People don't screw with the Chinese.

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    Re: List of facilities 'vital to US security' leaked

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    The fact that people are so readily calling for the U.S. to not only violate international law but the ideals of its own Constitution in apprehending one man is frankly very telling of the shape of things to come... or at least how the current players in power WANT things to be.
    I think what really worries me about the future of my country is that so few Americans are willing to stand up and uphold our ideals and constitutional rights in the face of their own fears. All the federal agencies had to do was to make a few pointed statements about "supporting terrorism" and "endangering the military," with ZERO SUBSTANTIATION OF THESE CLAIMS, and the so-called unthinking sheepriots will jump onto the bandwagon of calling for Assange's head.

    The danger in our society is NOT that the terrorists will get their hands on information. The danger is that the American public WON'T.

    What separates us from Kenya or China or Cuba if average Americans aren't entitled to the truth about our government's actions and dirty deals?

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