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It was a perfectly reasonable response to:
Well...not really, since you obviously missed my point.
It was a perfectly reasonable response to:
A decent after market camera? Define. You don't need a DSLR Canon here, you need a small, relatively low resolution camera for seeing moderate sized objects. A super high resolution is not required.
Given that a significant number of cars today come with a visual display already, expect it to cost on average somewhere in between the two given values.
Come to think of it, this would seem to make it so that each car has a color multimedia display for the rear-view camera of course, but it could also be used for multimedia and GPS. I don't see why the manufacturers wouldn't want to capitalize on possessing these features, given that those things are mostly software driven, and they would have already put down the money for the hardware...
I think we should be attacking this more than anything else in the proposal.
Yep, and we all know what a fine record the government has for predicting the costs of their mandates don't we?
I suggest you look at the cost of some of the after market cameras available like I did.
The manufacturers are ultimately the ones who choose the cameras, given that they fit guidelines. My guess is that they will go as cheap as possible within the restrictions given.
After-market cameras don't take into account the cut of the pie taken by all the parties between production and final sale. Additionally, if they're mandated for the entire US market mass production can be dramatically increased, which lowers costs further.
Bottom line: if cameras can be produced cheap to the given guidelines then they will.
I dare you to find a product installed by a car manufacturer that cannot be found cheaper on the open market.
Did you read what I said? The bonuses provided by mass production don't start until we've already... started production.
If you feel you have a strong point you should consider submitting it to the proposal, they outlined various ways to do it in the document itself, which you can find linked in my first post.
Of course I read it, but my challenge to you was to find a product currently being installed on autos, any product, that could not be found cheaper after market. Auto manufacturers have huge markups on all accessories. They have all those union pensions and health insurance premiums to pay for.
And as I said, it's unrealistic to expect prices to stay constant between now and after this proposal is accepted (if it is). Can you even buy cameras directly from the manufacturer after buying a car? I wouldn't know I've never had to. Do you have knowledge of this?
As for now, I'm going to do some research into where they got those numbers from, and I'll get back to you if I find anything substantive.
Thanks for the help.
When we lived in Fairfield CA, the lady across the street backed over her son in the driveway. He was lucky and only got a scrape on his nose from hitting the pavement. She was a dental hygienist that had a purse full of Vicodin samples. I doubt she would have looked at the camera screen if she had had one.
I could use one for when I go pick up the band trailer, even though I'm pretty good at just using spatial skills.
Maybe the cameras will cut down on the number of times that cagers pull into my lane when I'm riding my bike. Probably not. How can you view the screen when you're texting?
For the FINAL time...I challenged you to find ANY product that you can get cheaper from a manufacturer. That means radios, mirrors, gps systems, fenders, headlights, ANYTHING !
I don't see the point of your challenge... If you're talking about extras added on after you buy the car, or as optional when you buy the car, of course they will be expensive; they can justify passing the cost onto you. Here are some after market cameras.
80 bucks
60 bucks
24 bucks (without a screen)
90 bucks
90 bucks (with a 10.2" screen :O)
My point is, at the moment these products are currently in limited production. When a car company needs... a few million cameras... it will become cheaper. Also, tech gradually becomes cheaper over time. Also, a lot of cars already have screens in them to begin with...
Thanks for proving my point. After market accessories are ALWAYS cheaper than those available from the auto manufacturers.
Here's an OEM back-up camera for a GM that costs $630, then you have to pay for installation.
2008-2009 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra OEM back up camera
My point isn't about the cost to the consumer, it's about the cost to the manufacturer... That's what I've been trying to say these past few hours.
And you somehow think those aren't related ???
Of course they're related... but I've already shown that cameras CAN be manufactured relatively cheaply, why wouldn't they go to a cheaper source?
Apple Mac prices are also radically above the prices for each component within the computer... They charge the premium because they can.
When you are ready to discuss the real world, come back and we'll continue.
Adios
I am discussing the real world... It's a fact that the cameras can be had cheap, and that they overcharge for their own products. It's the same with genuine inspections.
We're talking about the cost it would take away from the manufacturer to implement these measures, if you want to talk about how much of that they'd pass onto the customer then I'd be fine with that.
Since the manufacturer's cost is irrelevant, I don't see any point in even bringing it up. It's the cost to the consumer that's the point of this thread.
Since the manufacturer's cost is irrelevant, I don't see any point in even bringing it up. It's the cost to the consumer that's the point of this thread.
Which could be nothing if they wanted it to be nothing.
Most people pay excessively for their vehicles because they don't know what to really do when they go to buy one. Everyone in the process of making and then selling you a vehicle want to swindle you out of money so they can then go home with their pockets stuffed.
I've never paid *over* sticker price for a new vehicle - I save thousands by being smart, well researched and well planned. .. they can bump the base cost of my next vehicle up $500.00 for this system and I'll still walk away paying thousands LESS than the average joe at the dealership.
If I can haggle and pull it of then there's no reason why someone else couldn't do the same thing.
That's very nice. Any intellegent person will haggle with auto sales people and few are dumb enough to pay the sticker price, but this has little to do with the subject at hand. The cost of accessories is included in the price and sales people know how low they can sell a car and still make a profit. You are haggling with a dealer, not the auto manufacturer.
That's very nice. Any intellegent person will haggle with auto sales people and few are dumb enough to pay the sticker price, but this has little to do with the subject at hand. The cost of accessories is included in the price and sales people know how low they can sell a car and still make a profit. You are haggling with a dealer, not the auto manufacturer.
It's not a matter of inelligence so much as it is that many people prefer to avoid the stresses involved in the haggling. Different people value things differently, and people value their time and energy in varying ways. It doesn't make the person who pays the least the most intelligent.
The federal government is getting ready to mandate that all new cars have rear-view cameras by 2014. Back-over crashes are responsible for 300 fatalities and 18,000 injuries per year...44% of which are children and 33% of which are the elderly.
Rear-view cameras on cars could become mandatory - latimes.com