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Thread: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

  1. #31
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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Am I reading this right? There are more Dems and independents who want all cuts to expire than Rep.? Why do dems hate the middle class? :-)
    there are more of them who don't pay any taxes and thus figure (perhaps wrongly) tax increases won't hurt them



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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    They're probably the ones concerned with the deficit/debt

    Not that I necessarily agree with them. We should cut spending as much as logically reasonable, then adjust tax rates so that a slight surplus is attained. There is a $685.1 billion dollar a year (and rising) expenditure that could be cut significantly
    That's bs-they are most likely the ones who want someone else to pay for the increased spending they want



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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That's bs-they are most likely the ones who want someone else to pay for the increased spending they want
    Military spending is going up 12.7%, while total revenue (income tax, corporate tax, social security payments, etc) are estimated to decrease 11%. How much of this insane military spending do you suggest cutting? At least social security and other payroll taxes bring in $940 billion and cost $677 billion, military spending has no source of revenue.
    Last edited by SirPwn4lot; 12-05-10 at 10:51 AM.

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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    Military spending is going up 12.7%, while total revenue (income tax, corporate tax, social security payments, etc) are estimated to decrease 11%. How much of this insane military spending do you suggest cutting? At least social security brings in $940 billion and costs $677 billion, military spending has no source of revenue.
    I agree, we spend too much on the military. our deployment in many nations is excessive

    however, I do note (as someone who takes the constitution and its restriction on government rather seriously) that military spending is clearly constitutional while many of the massive social spending are of dubious constitutional validity



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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Here's some problems with that logic.
    1) That 47% is from a careful and selective reading of the real numbers, and the implication that 47% of people pay no taxes is completly false since there are all kinds of different taxes.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/bu...leonhardt.html


    2) The poll in no way says that it only polled those who paid federal income tax.
    3) Even if you don't pay those taxes, you're vote still counts the same as someone who does so there's no reason for a poll place to divide people like that since it only leaves them with less accurate information.
    4) 33% of 53% of the people is still a minority, in fact its a smaller minority than if you took 33% of all Americans.
    5) The Federal government makes money in many many more ways than Federal income taxes, so one can still not pay those taxes but still support the government.

    6) 33% is not a majority and certainly can't be called the will of the people.
    This thread is about income taxes not consumption taxes. So for you to try and claim that consumption is a INCOME tax is the only falsehood I see.

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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I agree, we spend too much on the military. our deployment in many nations is excessive

    however, I do note (as someone who takes the constitution and its restriction on government rather seriously) that military spending is clearly constitutional while many of the massive social spending are of dubious constitutional validity
    Point out what you'd cut/increase in spending, and how much you'd like to cut/increase revenue, and which areas. I'm very interested to see your proposal.

    Dubious constitutionality? Care to elaborate?

    Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2010 are $2.381 trillion, an estimated decrease of 11% from 2009.
    $1.061 trillion Individual income taxes
    $940 billion Social Security and other payroll tax
    $222 billion Corporation income taxes
    $77 billion Excise taxes
    $23 billion Customs duties
    $20 billion Estate and gift taxes
    $22 billion Deposits of earnings
    $16 billion Other

    The President's budget for 2010 totals $3.55 trillion. Percentages in parentheses indicate percentage change compared to 2009. This budget request is broken down by the following expenditures:
    Mandatory spending: $2.184 trillion (+15.6%)
    $677.95 billion (+4.9%) Social Security
    $571 billion (−15.2%) Other mandatory programs
    $453 billion (+6.6%) Medicare
    $290 billion (+12.0%) Medicaid
    $164 billion (+18.0%) Interest on National Debt
    $11 billion (+275%) Potential disaster costs
    $0 billion (−100%) Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
    $0 billion (−100%) Financial stabilization efforts


    Discretionary spending: $1.368 trillion (+13.1%)
    $663.7 billion (+12.7%) Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
    $78.7 billion (−1.7%) Department of Health and Human Services
    $72.5 billion (+2.8%) Department of Transportation
    $52.5 billion (+10.3%) Department of Veterans Affairs
    $51.7 billion (+40.9%) Department of State and Other International Programs
    $47.5 billion (+18.5%) Department of Housing and Urban Development
    $46.7 billion (+12.8%) Department of Education
    $42.7 billion (+1.2%) Department of Homeland Security
    $26.3 billion (−0.4%) Department of Energy
    $26.0 billion (+8.8%) Department of Agriculture
    $23.9 billion (−6.3%) Department of Justice
    $18.7 billion (+5.1%) National Aeronautics and Space Administration
    $13.8 billion (+48.4%) Department of Commerce
    $13.3 billion (+4.7%) Department of Labor
    $13.3 billion (+4.7%) Department of the Treasury
    $12.0 billion (+6.2%) Department of the Interior
    $10.5 billion (+34.6%) Environmental Protection Agency
    $9.7 billion (+10.2%) Social Security Administration
    $7.0 billion (+1.4%) National Science Foundation
    $5.1 billion (−3.8%) Corps of Engineers
    $5.0 billion (+100%) National Infrastructure Bank
    $1.1 billion (+22.2%) Corporation for National and Community Service
    $0.7 billion (0.0%) Small Business Administration
    $0.6 billion (−14.3%) General Services Administration
    $19.8 billion (+3.7%) Other Agencies
    $105 billion Other

  7. #37
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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPwn4lot View Post
    They're probably the ones concerned with the deficit/debt

    Not that I necessarily agree with them. We should cut spending as much as logically reasonable, then adjust tax rates so that a slight surplus is attained. There is a $685.1 billion dollar a year (and rising) expenditure that could be cut significantly
    Concerned about the deficit ? Extending to tax cuts for the middle class will cost over $3 Trillion in the next ten years, more than four times the cost of extending it for those making over $200K, which are where virtually all the true job creators lie. We have unemployment at almost 10% !! The first best way to increase revenue is to get that number down !

    The Democrat mantra of "the evil rich" is not about deficits and never has been. Its about class envy and the purchasing of votes with OPM. The Bush Tax Cuts did not make the system less progressive, as the ratio of percents not only stayed virtually intact, but many more actually became non-payers of income tax, and with that as its main effect on taxpayers, the Bush Tax Cuts made teh system even more progressive. To make the tax code more progressive than it currently is, which is what Obama wants, will be the death of us if we do not stop it.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 12-05-10 at 11:09 AM.

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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    What a lot of people don't understand is how the rich can get breaks from several other things be it through investments, business expenses, etc.
    And people seem to not understand that the rich can move their money offshore when the tax system becomes to abusive. Then they only pay a consumption tax, which if you ask me is the fair way to tax people. Poor people consume less than rich, plus under the Fair Tax Plan would get a monthly rebate for necessaries to live.

    There is huge popularity in favor of the Fair Tax plan but DC realizes that it takes power from them and puts it back in the hands of Americans.

    Americans For Fair Taxation - The Fair Tax: Fair Tax wins CNBC Poll 74% to 26%

    Action America

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Rasmussen Poll Suggests FairTax Roadmap

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Weekly Feature
    Last edited by Heavy Duty; 12-05-10 at 11:11 AM.

  9. #39
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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    This thread is about income taxes not consumption taxes. So for you to try and claim that consumption is a INCOME tax is the only falsehood I see.
    Did I? Because I see that no where in what I said. Perhaps you can highlight it for me.

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    Re: Senate blocks Obama's tax plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    And people seem to not understand that the rich can move their money offshore when the tax system becomes to abusive. Then they only pay a consumption tax, which if you ask me is the fair way to tax people. Poor people consume less than rich, plus under the Fair Tax Plan would get a monthly rebate for necessaries to live.

    There is huge popularity in favor of the Fair Tax plan but DC realizes that it takes power from them and puts it back in the hands of Americans.

    Americans For Fair Taxation - The Fair Tax: Fair Tax wins CNBC Poll 74% to 26%

    Action America

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Rasmussen Poll Suggests FairTax Roadmap

    Americans For Fair Taxation: Weekly Feature
    The rich can spend well under 10% of their income, while the poor spend a significantly higher number. What do you suggest the FairTax being levelled at? And what does this mean compared to their current tax levels for the rich and the poor?

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