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Thread: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    of course it is serious

    A local government is making serious cutbacks to the number of people it employs. In doing so it is drastically reducing the number of police and firefighters it employs.

    Is it a risky move, most definately, but I doubt the city had much in the way of options other then raising taxes, or declaring bankruptcy. I expect raising taxes would have caused at least as big an issue. Cutting pensions of retired workers would be breaking contracts, and given the howls of protest when the government wanted to reduce or eliminate the bonus's owed to AIG employees, ( in breech of contracts) I am certain most people would not be in favor of breeching the contracts by reducing the pensions to retired workers
    Public employees will have to move to defined contribution pension plans and away from defined benefit pension plans. That is the looming big battle in state, municipal and local govt. budgets.

    Local and municipal govts. can go into bankruptcy and discharge those contracts with retired public employees. A bankrutcy judge has the power to restructure the retirement package, so the retired employees should just play ball and share the pain.

    States can't go into bankruptcy and discharge or restructure their debts. California's approaching insolvency is a test case for the nation. This is unknown territory. It's like being at a high stakes roulette table in Las Vegas. Fascinating to watch.

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Public employees will have to move to defined contribution pension plans and away from defined benefit pension plans. That is the looming big battle in state, municipal and local govt. budgets.

    Local and municipal govts. can go into bankruptcy and discharge those contracts with retired public employees. A bankrutcy judge has the power to restructure the retirement package, so the retired employees should just play ball and share the pain.

    States can't go into bankruptcy and discharge or restructure their debts. California's approaching insolvency is a test case for the nation. This is unknown territory. It's like being at a high stakes roulette table in Las Vegas. Fascinating to watch.
    The type of pension is not really the problem, it is that they were overly generous in nature. I dont blame the unions for wanting them, that is their job. To maximize the returns for its members (over the long and short term) They were doing a good job. It is the government officials that were not doing thier job in protecting taxpayer interests in accepting these contracts in the first place.

    Yes I know that in bankruptcy the pensions can be restructured which is why I mentioned it as a possibility
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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sounds like Greece to me...This ought to make Philly more desirable to move to....


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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The type of pension is not really the problem, it is that they were overly generous in nature. I dont blame the unions for wanting them, that is their job. To maximize the returns for its members (over the long and short term) They were doing a good job. It is the government officials that were not doing thier job in protecting taxpayer interests in accepting these contracts in the first place.

    Yes I know that in bankruptcy the pensions can be restructured which is why I mentioned it as a possibility
    AH! Herein lies the rub.

    The public employees unions collect dues from their members. The union bosses then make massive mindboggling political contributions to leftwing Democrats. The Democrats sponsored by the union bosses then are elected, and end up sitting across the bargainining table with the union bosses who elected them.

    In essence, the public empolyee unions have captured the political process. In doing so the public sector unions always place their objectives first, and the commonwealth be damned. The public employees have effectively enslaved the taxpayers.

    I live in California. The corrupt process is easily observable here. It can't be defended with intellectual honesty.

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    AH! Herein lies the rub.

    The public employees unions collect dues from their members. The union bosses then make massive mindboggling political contributions to leftwing Democrats. The Democrats sponsored by the union bosses then are elected, and end up sitting across the bargainining table with the union bosses who elected them.

    In essence, the public empolyee unions have captured the political process. In doing so the public sector unions always place their objectives first, and the commonwealth be damned. The public employees have effectively enslaved the taxpayers.

    I live in California. The corrupt process is easily observable here. It can't be defended with intellectual honesty.
    Everyone has the right to make donations to political parties and vote out those they do not like. If the voters of California have not punished their elected officials by not voting them into office again and again for providing such generous pensions and benifits it is their own fault, not that of the unions
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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Camden had a police force?
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    AH! Herein lies the rub.

    The public employees unions collect dues from their members. The union bosses then make massive mindboggling political contributions to leftwing Democrats. The Democrats sponsored by the union bosses then are elected, and end up sitting across the bargainining table with the union bosses who elected them.

    In essence, the public empolyee unions have captured the political process. In doing so the public sector unions always place their objectives first, and the commonwealth be damned. The public employees have effectively enslaved the taxpayers.

    I live in California. The corrupt process is easily observable here. It can't be defended with intellectual honesty.
    If that's the case, then the answer isn't to get rid of unions - rather, the answer is for there to be more accountability for public sector unions, and the political officials who negotiate with them.

    Another issue is that we have way too many stupid ****ing laws. Wasn't there a thread on this forum just recently about a man who moved from Colorado to New Jersey who got arrested for having two handguns in the trunk of his car?

    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    If that's the case, then the answer isn't to get rid of unions - rather, the answer is for there to be more accountability for public sector unions, and the political officials who negotiate with them.
    Unions are accountable to its members. It should not be accountable to the public any more then Ford or GE is. Politicians are the ones that should be held accoutable for the contracts they approve. No different the a business manager (ceo, president etc) that signs a stupid labour contract that puts the company at risk

    Another issue is that we have way too many stupid ****ing laws. Wasn't there a thread on this forum just recently about a man who moved from Colorado to New Jersey who got arrested for having two handguns in the trunk of his car?

    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.
    Happy Hanukkah Cheerfull Kwanzaa
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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    2nd highest crime rate in the country... and half the police area about to go bye bye.... sweet.
    If it has the second highest crime rate in the country, perhaps the City Council rationalized that they weren't doing such a very good job. It's quite possible that it was a bloated bureaucracy with poor management which had little effect on the crime rate. Perhaps they're looking to a leaner, meaner machine.

    But i could be wrong!!

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    Re: Camden City Council Approves Massive Police And Fire Layoffs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Everyone has the right to make donations to political parties and vote out those they do not like. If the voters of California have not punished their elected officials by not voting them into office again and again for providing such generous pensions and benifits it is their own fault, not that of the unions
    Indeed, the parasite has a right to kill it's host even at the cost of it's own death. This is the truth.

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