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Thread: Jobless Rate Rises to 9.8 Percent, Highest Since April(edited)

  1. #111
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You ought to know
    Coming from someone who routinely claims the early 80's recession was more severe than the current, ill chalk it up to my previous post.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    kandahar said it best (post #87). The Bush tax cuts are still in place and were in place when the recession hit. You can't make the claim that things are terrible under Obama when the **** hit than fan under GW Bush using the exact tax strategy that's in place right now! Clearly, the Bush tax cuts didn't prevent the recession. To leave them intact, IMO, is rather foolhearty. Moreover, to believe that tax cuts alone will get us out of this recession and, therefore, reduce unemployment is a pipe dream. But good luck with that.

    (Note: Only one thing I disagree with in his post; Clinton did reduce government spending.)
    The Bush tax cuts had nothing to do with the financial crisis and that is what led to the economic meltdown and there is no way that a tax cut could have prevented that. Now, however the recession is over but jobs aren't being created and that is why the tax code needs to be reviewed and further cuts made. The results prior to the financial crisis are there for all to see. My question is why are you more concerned about money going to the govt. instead of the money being kept by the individual?

    As for Clinton a very simple question, did he sign GOP Congressional legislation with more or less spending? Did Bill Clinton shutdown the govt. because the Congress sent him budgets with more or less spending?

  3. #113
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Coming from someone who routinely claims the early 80's recession was more severe than the current, ill chalk it up to my previous post.
    I don't recall people lined up around buildings to get IPhones or the latest technogical devise then but I do remember people throwing their keys at banks because of 17+% interest rates. You were probably buried in your economics books and didn't see what was going on around you at that time. I don't think you have a lot of credibility on that issue.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    no one actually expected things to change overnight
    obama promised with passage of his stimulus unemployment would cap at 8%

    The main criticism by Obama's supporters is that he's not doing enough, not that the things he's doing are wrong
    ok, but tsunami tuesday showed that obama's supporters are in the fast shrinking minority

    the main criticism of the AMERICAN ELECTORATE is what matters, and their sentiment, tho inaudible to the large lobed loser on pennsylvania avenue, is unambiguously clear to most everyone else

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And there's 4 posts calling me an idiot for disagreeing about a term.
    no one should call you an idiot

    i'm sorry if that happened to you, for what it's worth

    If you want to talk facts, we can talk facts.
    yes, and 9.8 is devastating, it's been 2 years, things are getting worse, he promised 8%...

    the stimulus failed

    stay up

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    obama promised with passage of his stimulus unemployment would cap at 8%



    ok, but tsunami tuesday showed that obama's supporters are in the fast shrinking minority

    the main criticism of the AMERICAN ELECTORATE is what matters, and their sentiment, tho inaudible to the large lobed loser on pennsylvania avenue, is unambiguously clear to most everyone else
    It is Obama policies that are making the recovery out of this recession slower and worse than those of the past. Imagine if you can this recession with 17+% mortgage interest rates and double digit inflation? Then notice the policies of Reagan vs the policies of Obama to get us out of the recessions. There is no question that a pro growth, tax reduction solution would have gotten us out of thise recession quicker and with better job growth just like Reagan did.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You cannot spin your way out of a mistake.

    Thankfully we have social safety nets and government intervention (to prevent epic bank failures) during major downturns!
    If anyone is doing any spinning it is you. I have shown clearly that my math is correct and that your earlier claim is laughable.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I don't recall people lined up around buildings to get IPhones or the latest technogical devise then but I do remember people throwing their keys at banks because of 17+% interest rates. You were probably buried in your economics books and didn't see what was going on around you at that time. I don't think you have a lot of credibility on that issue.
    Federal Reserve policy to stem inflation required high interest rates to cool down monetary expansion. During peak levels (the 17% you site), Volker targeted monetary aggregates as prescribed by monetarists, which led to high levels of interest rate volatility.






    From the Fed:
    Moving Away from Targeting M1 (Starting in Late 1982)
    In response to financial market innovation and decreased inflation, the Federal Reserve shifted back to its approach of targeting the price rather than the quantity of money in the fall of 1982. In other words, the FOMC, through the Trading Desk at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, began to conduct open market operations that targeted a particular degree of tightness or ease in reserve market conditions. For a time, the Fed also focused on the broader monetary aggregate known as M2. But in July 1993, Chairman Alan Greenspan testified to Congress that the Fed would no longer use
    How did the Fed change its approach to monetary policy in the late 1970s and early 1980s? (01/2003)

    What you did not see was massive foreclosures on such a wide income range. Delinquency and foreclosure rates were more than double that of any recessionary period, including '73 and '82. You did not see 6 of the top 10 global bankruptcies of all time occur (1,2,4,5,8,9) within an 18 month span.

    But yeah, it was much worse
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  9. #119
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Oh, I agree with you that pay for civil service employees is rather absord these days, but considering that we heard corporate CEOs telling us that they needed their big multi-million dollar bonuses in the wake of TARP in order to "recruit and/or retain the smartest accountants around", I think I can deal with government employees under federal contract receiving pay that's comporable to their private sector counterparts. When you stop long enough to think about it, most federal employees outside of Congress haven't been around the government long enough to be considered "career civil servants". Contrary to what most people think, there are fewer real careerist within the federal employee ranks than people might think. But do you know why that is? The answer is very simple...

    Conservatives have been screaming "BIG GOVERNMENT" for so long and that goverment is inefficient that federal agencies started reducing their ranks from within and have contracted from the private sector. But in order to "recruit" the best and the brightest, the pay had to be increased to compete w/the private sector.

    So, don't complain about "big government" and "big government pay" if you're going to continue complaining about the inefficiency of government and that the private sector can do it better. For if you do it often enough and loud enough, your government will hear you and start doing the one thing it can do in order to meet your demands - contract out the workload!

    You can't have it both ways!!!
    If one wants to cherry pick and compare top CEO's with top government, there will never be a comparison. Its also a strawman. The article that I linked, and many others, show that the average government employee makes far more now, and with better benefits, than the average private sector. But what makes it worse, again as I pointed out, is that the government sector has seen no contraction during this downturn, in fact becoming an even larger burden on the taxpayer, as revenue bases contracted. To add further insult, much of Stimulus went to maintain big government and unions, both government and non-government.

    I would rate the government not much better controlling these bonuses, in firms where government money was willingly taken (not to be confused with where it was forced, which was another Obama miscue) was a further mistake by Obama. When you look at how Geithner gave that money out, there was way too much back scratching anyway.

    Back more to the thread and the failure of Obama's policies. Passing Obamacare, threatening Cap and Trade, blowing $800 trillion in Stimulus, all of this could not be more wrong in an ailing economy. We got the proof now.

    I am one conservative who sided more with McCain back in 2002, when he suggested Bush trim back the tax cuts with the War costs on the horizon. It would have been the right move, although in the end, the tax cuts are not what did us in, it was the housing bubble debacle. But back to Bush, I believe he was too inflexible at that time. Unfortunately, now with the mess we are in, raising taxes on anyone now, even if the original tax cuts were not as McCain recommended, is a bad idea. Likewise, Obama stuck with his massive spending agenda (Obamacare and threatened Cap and trade) at a time when the economy could not absorb it. And Stimulus is such a massive pile of crap.

    American business does not trust Obama worth a lick right now. He has taken normal business risk coming out of a recession and made it far worse than it need be. We would be far better off right now if there had been no Stimulus and no Obamacare. The only thing I agreed with was TARP, but unspent and paid-back monies needed to go back to debt reduction.

    Obama took bad Keynesian economics and made it worse.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 12-03-10 at 06:17 PM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If anyone is doing any spinning it is you. I have shown clearly that my math is correct and that your earlier claim is laughable.
    Let's see:

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Chicken poop.

    The single worst month of job losses was Jan of '09 (779k jobs lost). We could have sustained losses like that for over two consecutive years and still not "reached 1930's levels."
    Anything over 11% was 1930's levels, and suddenly you changed your position reflect to the max levels during '32 as a means to spin out of your claim. Time to man up!
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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