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Thread: Jobless Rate Rises to 9.8 Percent, Highest Since April(edited)

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Ah, but wait, Mr. Whovian. You left off important pieces of info from the portions of the article you quoted (your post #39). Allow me to correct you and then put some things into perspective:



    So, again, I say to all those who have this "Obama = BIG GOVERNMENT", I think you need to think again because clearly the government had it's largest increase under none other than....


    ....former President GEORGE W. BUSH!!! ............
    But lookie here:

    More federal workers' pay tops $150,000
    The number of federal workers earning $150,000 or more a year has soared tenfold in the past five years and doubled since President Obama took office, a USA TODAY analysis finds.
    More federal workers' pay tops $150,000 - USATODAY.com
    Now you can go back and say "LOOK. ... LOOK .. things increased under Bush too !!!
    But let me point out some things for you:

    1) Bush was President during 9-11 and the entire creation of Homeland Security. Love it, hate it, it was done; and GB had some good economic times from 2003-2007 when pay increases were expected.

    2) We keep hearing how Obama inherited job losses of 700K per month, and that the job losses that kept happening for at least a year after he became Presbo were not his fault. But the pay increases that more than doubled the number of employees making over $150K since Obama took office, at a time when the rest of America was hemmorhaging jobs and income, are all Obama. While the country was in this massive tail-spin in the private sector, Obama was handing out candy to government employees.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Again, if you acknowledge that the Bush tax cuts are still in place and that taxes are the same or lower under Obama, I'm really not clear on what you're so pissed off about if you think that low taxes are all that's necessary to have a booming economy.
    How many times does he need to repeat his point on uncertainty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yep, that looks like a pretty substantial decrease to me. The tax cuts were implemented in 2001. It took three years to get back to the SAME revenue as we had in 2001.
    No, for the most part, the tax cuts were implemented in 2003.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian View Post
    With an increasing unemployment rate, you say stimulus spending has incented private sector job growth?
    Yes. It provides jobs to contractors, consultants, and direct hires whom the government employs for some specific purpose, often related to infrastructure. The unemployment rate, as mentioned before, is hardly relevant. The economy is a massive ship with tugboats pulling it in all different directions. No government policy can get them to all pull it the same way; at most they can just get more of them to pull it in one direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    Can you please link to something showing the fiscal assistance given to various states, and there corresponding job growth?
    State assistance was part of the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act. It was not as large as it should have been, but it was included. The act included $87 billion to help states with Medicaid, $21 billion to help states with education, and $3 billion to help states with energy. Additionally, it included the $4.4 billion Race to the Top program which will reward states for education reform.
    American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by Whovian
    Because he did not pursue something like 'card check', that equates to a policy that incented private sector job growth in your mind?
    No, it's just a restraint on his own party.
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Kandahar;1059136414]I'm in favor of resolving the debate on the extension of the Bush tax cuts too, but it really defies logic to think that the uncertainty over a POSSIBLE modest increase in taxes is responsible for such a huge differential in unemployment.
    It has nothing to do with "modest increase in taxes" but the idea that Democrats are promoting deficit reduction while promoting another increase in unemployment benefits and doing nothing to create incentive to grow jobs.

    If that isn't what you're talking about, you're going to need to be more specific what "uncertainties" you're talking about.
    Any potential increase in taxes or costs of doing business is an uncertainty. That uncertainty can be eliminated by repealing Obamacare and extending the Bush tax cuts.

    Again, if you acknowledge that the Bush tax cuts are still in place and that taxes are the same or lower under Obama, I'm really not clear on what you're so pissed off about if you think that low taxes are all that's necessary to have a booming economy.
    Not pissed at all personally but am pissed about the intellectual dishonesty of the Obama supporters and this Administration. Lower taxes only provide individuals with more personal income that are one step towards a growing economy. The fact is 47% of the income earners last year paid ZERO Federal income taxes and Obama is worried about the top 2%. Make sense to you? How much revenue is being lost by that 47% not paying any income taxes vs raising taxes on the top 2%? This is all about principle and again the debate on whose money is it and who has the right to spend it.

    Yep, that looks like a pretty substantial decrease to me. The tax cuts were implemented in 2001. It took three years to get back to the SAME revenue as we had in 2001. It took four years to get back to the same revenue and repay the revenue lost in the years between, assuming that the tax revenue would not have increased at ALL without the Bush tax cuts. Assuming a fairly realistic 3% increase without the tax cuts, it took EIGHT years. If you assume much more than 3%, it still hasn't happened and probably won't anytime soon.
    Not surprising that you don't understand the Bush tax cuts and what happened. The Bush tax cuts were identical to the Obama tax cuts in that in 2001 they were rebates that once gone were gone. That was generated under the Democrat Congress. In 2003 withholding rates were reduced and that meant more take home pay in EACH paycheck and that is when the revenue grew. You may have been in school at the time and not old enough to understand what happened. I do suggest better research.

    Now don't get me wrong, I don't hold Bush entirely responsible for that. Some of it was caused by the 2001 recession, to which the tax cuts were partially a RESPONSE. Yet you're going to hold Obama responsible for not generating revenue in the 21 months since the American Recovery & Reinvestment Act. Makes perfect sense.
    All I can say about Obama is "see, I told you so." He is a far left ideologue that knows everything except what drives this economy and that is the private sector. His resume showed someone totally unqualified to be in the office he holds and those lack of qualifications are shown in the results generated.


    Only if you assume that the tax revenue would not have increased at all on its own without the Bush tax cuts over the span of eight years, which is quite a dubious assumption.
    So Obama's answer is to increase the taxes on 2% of the population? His answer is to increase costs on businesses? My question to you is why do you and others believe that the govt. needs the money more than the individual? You use simple math whereas most conservatives focus on growth. I prefer two taxpayers paying fifty cents to 1 taxpayer paying a dollar in taxes. Figure out why?

    Your brilliant and not at all simplistic economic theory:
    Low taxes = Good.
    Taxes under Bush: Low. Therefore, good.
    Taxes under Obama: Equally low, or even lower. Therefore, bad. He must be destroying jobs.

    What's the difference? Obama is a Democrat.
    LOL, nice spin, I grew up a Democrat, played JFK in my civics class, voted Democrat for years, Obama is no Democrat, Obama doesn't believe in the principles which made this country great nor the principles of JFK as I posted.

    Obama did not lower taxes, he gave a rebate check which reduced tax revenue but didn't lower taxes. No withholding changes took place and as a result people with more income that actually did pay taxes paid more under Obama.

    I really don't know what you're talking about, and you have quite an odd view of history if you think that Clinton reduced government spending.
    Who said Clinton reduced govt. spending? I was talking about Clinton going to the Center
    Last edited by Conservative; 12-03-10 at 03:44 PM.

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    So How's that $787 billion stimulus package working out for you so far?

    Still believe Obama that unemployment won't go above 8%.



    We have seen that billions have have gone to places we were initially never told about like NBC and GE get 24.9 million in Stimulus money.

    Does anyone wonder why, NBC, GE gets this cash?

    If you do your possibly suffering from lack of mental acuity and or never heard of the Olbermann. Matthews, Schultz, Obama propaganda machine on MSNBC.


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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I wasn't aware that we were not still in a recession. The high unemployment would suggest that we are. Also, no one actually expected things to change overnight, not even the most staunch supporters of Obama. Hope and change are pretty good. If anything, we want more hope and more change. The main criticism by Obama's supporters is that he's not doing enough, not that the things he's doing are wrong.

    So yes, hope and change are infinitely preferable to repression and fear.
    Recession was over in 2009, didn't you get the memo?
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Recession was over in 2009, didn't you get the memo?
    Addendum...that 9.8% doesnt come close to telling the whole picture re unemployment...

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Let's be realistic, things that would create jobs are fostering invention and creativity, reducing the desire for businesses to move overseas (yep, probably cutting some taxes), and focus on changing the short term viewpoints of corporate leaders. Instead of just trying to jack up the stock price this quarter, a focus on steady growth over the long term would actually create more jobs. This would require a massive re-thinking of the market system and would probably call for a lot more regulation in what businesses are allowed to do. Corporate American has proven that it causes mischief when we aren't watching.
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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Let's be realistic, things that would create jobs are fostering invention and creativity, reducing the desire for businesses to move overseas (yep, probably cutting some taxes), and focus on changing the short term viewpoints of corporate leaders. Instead of just trying to jack up the stock price this quarter, a focus on steady growth over the long term would actually create more jobs. This would require a massive re-thinking of the market system and would probably call for a lot more regulation in what businesses are allowed to do. Corporate American has proven that it causes mischief when we aren't watching.
    LOL, you know, when I find a corporation that is "screwing" the public, I stop buying from that corporation thus stop funding them. Wish I could do that with the govt. Do you realize that less than 20% of business in this country are those large corporations that you love to hate?

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    Re: Unemployment rate hits 9.8%. Hope and Change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    NBER says we are out of the recession and economic growth indicates that we are out of the recession but it is a jobless recovery and that jobless recovery is due to Obama economic policies that do not promote private sector growth.

    Thanks for confirming that rhetoric trumps results in your world. Take that rhetoric to the grocery store with you to buy for the family? How has that message affected world and economic results? Why is it in your world that actual results are ignored and you continue to buy the rhetoric?
    Would you be saying the same if Bush was president right now? Somehow I doubt it.

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