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House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

Conservative said:
Randel, I really do feel sorry for you as you are out of your league here. Still waiting for how many jobs will be created by raising the taxes on the top 2% of income earners? Also waiting for your explanation as to what Obama has done to create jobs when the net job loss in two years is 4 million according to bls.gov.

Unfortunately you are still in that trance stage over the Obama rhetoric. Too bad you weren't one of those awakened on Nov. 2, 2010.
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you sir, are the very last one on this forum who should ever tell someone that they are out of their league, you would do well to keep that in mind....your opinion isnt the only one that matters, your opinion doesnt make you right...it is what it is, an opinion. again, something you should probably keep in mind.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Where did I say that?
tax revenues can go up with tax increases, or they can go down, tax revenues can go up with tax cuts, or they can go down with tax cuts. It is entirely dependant on the what is occuring in the wider economy. Small tax increases or cuts will have minor effects either way.



Currently the US government has a trillion dollar deficit, tax cuts are not going to solve that. A combination of tax increases and spending cuts are going to be required to eliminate the deficit. Thankfully I have an education and not some piece of paper from Coconut College. Try to think critically about all factors that effect the economy rather some narrow set of stats and you will be far better served by your "vast" knowledge
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How will increasing taxes put 16 million people back to work and paying taxes?
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why did orszag quit?

all that remains is a splinter

carry on
 
randel said:
the rich have their tax cut, where are the jobs you promised that would create? where conservative, where? and i know i have you pegged right.
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Rich Lowry writes:
Texas already looms large in its own imagination. Its elevated self-image didn’t need this: More than half of the net new jobs in the U.S. during the past 12 months were created in the Lone Star State.According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 214,000 net new jobs were created in the United States from August 2009 to August 2010. Texas created 119,000 jobs during the same period
Lowry: Why Texas is a Model for Growth | FrumForum
 
randel said:
your opinion isnt the only one that matters, your opinion doesnt make you right...it is what it is, an opinion.
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i strongly agree

none of our opinions amounts to more than a click-and-submit in some meaningless forum

the opinions that matter are all in washington

and the deal is done

sorry
 
Conservative said:
Lord Tammerlain said:
Where did I say that?

How will increasing taxes put 16 million people back to work and paying taxes?
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it won't but it might make some of those who have been collecting unemployment for close to two years vote for the dems because "they care about Me" and they want to punish those who are doing well when I am not.
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Eighty Deuce said:
Let's help the liberal out here. Your article highlights Greenspan admitting his screw up with the housing bubble. As for the "failure of Reaganomincs", libtards can chew on this:

recovery-graphs400.jpg


Read 'em and weep. Reaganomics success. Obamanomics fail. You can tick that Obama red-line up to 9.8, btw.

And lastly, as for Republicans being evil .... better get some silver bullets and some wooden stakes ........ and be very afraid ... BOO !
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Please note that when Reagan was president our country had manufacturing jobs available which have since gone bye, bye.
 
TurtleDude said:
one of the great lies perpetrated by the socialist and democrat party left is that if someone opposes the government forcibly redistributing income that person must be selfish or greedy. Its the way rich dems demonize their opponents and its the way the dependent democrats justify suckling from the public teat and damning those who want to cut back on the milk coming from that teat.

In reality, most of us who oppose forced income redistribution are not only in favor of private charity, we tend to support it at much higher rates than similarly situated democrats or welfare socialists.

Nothing is more greedy and self centered than demanding others contribute at the point of a gun while you do not.
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hey, i'm all for charity, contribute myself, but you do know that many charities are struggling to meet the demand for their services, right?? i'm so tired of people on here, mostly from the right , accusing those who are unemployed , of being 'lazy, no good, pieces of ^^^^, who don't want to work, but on the other hand, screaming about the lack of jobs, AND THEN wanting to cut these people off from unemployment...can you turtle, can you promise me that the charities in this country can meet the demand for aid? can you? no, you can't. can they meet the need long term? again, no they can't. i've no problem with my government helping out those in need...is it abused by some? sure is..by all, no, no it isnt. in hard times this country is supposed to pull together, help each other out, not say to your neighbor, 'sorry, but i guess your just sh^^ outta luck'. that is a piss poor attitude to have, and when you are more concerned about having a few more dollars in your pocket than you are about your fellow citizens, that is a sad commentary on where this country is heading, and what this country is becoming. its not a left or right thing turtle, its about giving a f### about your fellow Americans....when you care more about a few extra bills in your wallet than you do about your fellow americans, that is piss poor.
 
pbrauer said:
Please note that when Reagan was president our country had manufacturing jobs available which have since gone bye, bye.
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How will raising taxes on the top 2% put 16 million Americans back to work and back paying their full taxes? Noticed that you are still hung up on Reagan in an attempt to divert from the disaster in the WH. Where is that Middle Class tax cut democrats are talking about? My bet it is in the same place the Clinton promise was for a middle class tax cut since you want to review history.
 
Conservative said:
How will increasing taxes put 16 million people back to work and paying taxes?
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Low taxes dont seem to be doing the trick either. So might as well pay down the deficit
 
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randel said:
hey, i'm all for charity, contribute myself, but you do know that many charities are struggling to meet the demand for their services, right?? i'm so tired of people on here, mostly from the right , accusing those who are unemployed , of being 'lazy, no good, pieces of ^^^^, who don't want to work, but on the other hand, screaming about the lack of jobs, AND THEN wanting to cut these people off from unemployment...can you turtle, can you promise me that the charities in this country can meet the demand for aid? can you? no, you can't. can they meet the need long term? again, no they can't. i've no problem with my government helping out those in need...is it abused by some? sure is..by all, no, no it isnt. in hard times this country is supposed to pull together, help each other out, not say to your neighbor, 'sorry, but i guess your just sh^^ outta luck'. that is a piss poor attitude to have, and when you are more concerned about having a few more dollars in your pocket than you are about your fellow citizens, that is a sad commentary on where this country is heading, and what this country is becoming. its not a left or right thing turtle, its about giving a f### about your fellow Americans....when you care more about a few extra bills in your wallet than you do about your fellow americans, that is piss poor.
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do you know what I am sick of

1) claims that the rich somehow screwed people over to become rich

2) claiming that the rich got rich on "the backs of the poor

3) claiming that the rich can afford as many tax hikes as the democrats see fit to impose

4) claiming that the rich don't pay their fair share even though the rich pay 20-40 times as much income tax as any other group (depends if you count the rich as the top 1 or 2 percent)

5) claiming that the rich use far more government services than the 95% who pay less taxes than the top 5%

6) claiming that the rich are responsible for the deficit, the lack of jobs etc

7) claiming that if we don't support the schemes rich dems use to buy the votes of their minions, we are selfish and we don't care about other people

8) claiming that as long as their are poor people or people out of job we ought to feel guilty about having money or jobs
 
TurtleDude said:
one of the great lies perpetrated by the socialist and democrat party left is that if someone opposes the government forcibly redistributing income that person must be selfish or greedy. Its the way rich dems demonize their opponents and its the way the dependent democrats justify suckling from the public teat and damning those who want to cut back on the milk coming from that teat.

In reality, most of us who oppose forced income redistribution are not only in favor of private charity, we tend to support it at much higher rates than similarly situated democrats or welfare socialists.

Nothing is more greedy and self centered than demanding others contribute at the point of a gun while you do not.
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Actually, everyone IS selfish and greedy. It is a prime mover in all of our actions and behaviors. This is why one cannot separate economics from human psychology.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, everyone IS selfish and greedy. It is a prime mover in all of our actions and behaviors. This is why one cannot separate economics from human psychology.
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mostly true but not always. I know people who are purely altruistic. There are people who do stuff that does not objectively benefit themselves but you can always claim it makes the giver feel better which is not subject to objective proof.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you know what I am sick of

1) claims that the rich somehow screwed people over to become rich

2) claiming that the rich got rich on "the backs of the poor

3) claiming that the rich can afford as many tax hikes as the democrats see fit to impose

4) claiming that the rich don't pay their fair share even though the rich pay 20-40 times as much income tax as any other group (depends if you count the rich as the top 1 or 2 percent)

5) claiming that the rich use far more government services than the 95% who pay less taxes than the top 5%

6) claiming that the rich are responsible for the deficit, the lack of jobs etc

7) claiming that if we don't support the schemes rich dems use to buy the votes of their minions, we are selfish and we don't care about other people

8) claiming that as long as their are poor people or people out of job we ought to feel guilty about having money or jobs
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Good list. Tell you what. Whenever you see someone actually say something like this, link to this list and call them on it.
 
TurtleDude said:
mostly true but not always. I know people who are purely altruistic. There are people who do stuff that does not objectively benefit themselves but you can always claim it makes the giver feel better which is not subject to objective proof.
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Well, I won't hijack this thread with my theory of altruism, but I do disagree with you. Every act has a motitvation.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Low taxes dont seem to be doing the trick either. So might as well pay down the deficit
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Certainly no logic or common sense in your world. Raising taxes means less take home pay for all Americans thus lower spending, and lower profits which then means lower business taxes. so now we still have high unemployment and now lower corporate taxes and you think that is good? That doesn't make any sense at all.

What you ignore and all liberals ignore is the tax revenue increase after the Bush tax cuts of 2003 that came from 8.5 million jobs created and higher corporate taxes. Now you believe that raising taxes somehow will lower the deficit with that many people unemployed? Sorry, that is real voodoo economics.
 
TurtleDude said:
do you know what I am sick of

1) claims that the rich somehow screwed people over to become rich

2) claiming that the rich got rich on "the backs of the poor

3) claiming that the rich can afford as many tax hikes as the democrats see fit to impose

4) claiming that the rich don't pay their fair share even though the rich pay 20-40 times as much income tax as any other group (depends if you count the rich as the top 1 or 2 percent)

5) claiming that the rich use far more government services than the 95% who pay less taxes than the top 5%

6) claiming that the rich are responsible for the deficit, the lack of jobs etc

7) claiming that if we don't support the schemes rich dems use to buy the votes of their minions, we are selfish and we don't care about other people

8) claiming that as long as their are poor people or people out of job we ought to feel guilty about having money or jobs
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can you promise me that charities can handle all those who have need? or are you one of those that worries more about having a few dollars more in your wallet to buy a latte at starbucks? i'm not asking you to feel guilty for anything, if you have money thats great, if you don't, hey , thats great to, i don't judge you by how much you make.
 
from Turtle

Nothing is more greedy and self centered than demanding others contribute at the point of a gun while you do not.
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Hyperbole much? I prefer to think of it as demanding you pay your fair share or providing you with more suitable quarters to consider your crimes against the people.
 
randel said:
hey, i'm all for charity, contribute myself, but you do know that many charities are struggling to meet the demand for their services, right?? i'm so tired of people on here, mostly from the right , accusing those who are unemployed , of being 'lazy, no good, pieces of ^^^^, who don't want to work, but on the other hand, screaming about the lack of jobs, AND THEN wanting to cut these people off from unemployment...can you turtle, can you promise me that the charities in this country can meet the demand for aid? can you? no, you can't. can they meet the need long term? again, no they can't. i've no problem with my government helping out those in need...is it abused by some? sure is..by all, no, no it isnt. in hard times this country is supposed to pull together, help each other out, not say to your neighbor, 'sorry, but i guess your just sh^^ outta luck'. that is a piss poor attitude to have, and when you are more concerned about having a few more dollars in your pocket than you are about your fellow citizens, that is a sad commentary on where this country is heading, and what this country is becoming. its not a left or right thing turtle, its about giving a f### about your fellow Americans....when you care more about a few extra bills in your wallet than you do about your fellow americans, that is piss poor.
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Tell us, logically, why people should "help their neighbor out". I'm not saying that I disagree with you, but you're basically making an appeal to emotion. What are some reasons that you think those who are less fortunate should receive assistance?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Good list. Tell you what. Whenever you see someone actually say something like this, link to this list and call them on it.
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If I had the time I would because I have seen almost every claim made on this board and all of them made numerous times on several boards
 
randel said:
can you promise me that charities can handle all those who have need? or are you one of those that worries more about having a few dollars more in your wallet to buy a latte at starbucks? i'm not asking you to feel guilty for anything, if you have money thats great, if you don't, hey , thats great to, i don't judge you by how much you make.
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probably not given that high taxes prevent people from giving some more to charities. Your dem masters want to make it even more expensive to give to charities by cutting back on tax deductions for charitable contributions. Why is that?
 
haymarket said:
from Turtle



Hyperbole much? I prefer to think of it as demanding you pay your fair share or providing you with more suitable quarters to consider your crimes against the people.
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its the point of a gun. try again
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Well, I won't hijack this thread with my theory of altruism, but I do disagree with you. Every act has a motitvation.
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you can define motivation so broadly your point is true but not a point that most would agree with. but as I noted if someone wants to help people because they like helping people that is the motivation you speak of.
 
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