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Thread: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    seems to me from my history classes, that when this country was first founded, we had to 'pull together' for the common good, especially when we were founding the colonies.
    Right, "We the people" pulled together to help each other not "we the government".

    The moment you stop helping your neighbor and expect the government to do it instead you separate society into classes, and these sorts of debates we see here will only rise and continue.

    Whether this is deliberate attempt at class warfare or not, I don't know, but the outcome will be the same.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    i think having some 'safety net' programs such as food stamps and unemployment benefits benefit society on the whole...if we don't have 'lifelines' such as these, i believe you would see an uptick in petty crime, crime such as shoplifting, gasoline drive offs, and alot of this crime would be by people who have never had a previous criminal record, but when you have to feed yourself and feed your family, or have fuel to look for a job, you will do things that you know are wrong, do things you are ashamed of, just to survive... if cutting benefits is the path we go down, i guarantee you will hear/see more instances of this type of crime, which of course, will be prosecuted, which cost the taxpayer money for the courts, if found guilty, the person will get anything from probation to prison, both require the tax payer to fork over more cash to pay for lawyers(lets face it, if you are so desperate to steal food or gas, you arent gonna have money for an attorney), for jail space, for prison/jail guards, and if the person is incarcerated, the system has to feed them...i guess it comes down to do we pay for benefits now, or do we pay several times later ? i conceed that yes, some people will abuse benefits, will milk the system for as long as they can, and as hard as they can, but by no means are they the majority. i will also conceed that yes, this costs taxpayers money...but what is cheaper? benefits now that allow people that lifeline to hang on until they can find work, or prosecuting desperate people later?
    Do you realize that food stamps and unemployment are state funded issues? They become Federal programs when mandated by the Federal Govt. to extend payments beyond the original intent. Do you have a problem with the word "benefit" when it comes to being unemployed or on food stamps? Those shouldn't be called benefits but should be called what they are, an expense or temporary assistance instead of something that has a positive connotation.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Do you realize that food stamps and unemployment are state funded issues? They become Federal programs when mandated by the Federal Govt. to extend payments beyond the original intent. Do you have a problem with the word "benefit" when it comes to being unemployed or on food stamps? Those shouldn't be called benefits but should be called what they are, an expense or temporary assistance instead of something that has a positive connotation.
    call it what you will, semantics...call it government aid, call it government assistance, calll it benefits...doesnt change my opinion that they are needed and provide a benefit to society as a whole .

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    call it what you will, semantics...call it government aid, call it government assistance, calll it benefits...doesnt change my opinion that they are needed and provide a benefit to society as a whole .
    Ok, they are needed and that is why we have state and local governments, to provide assistence to the people in their area. Why do you believe that is a Federal Responsibility instead of a state, local, or charity responsibility? How long do you think we should be providing payments to the unemployed? How about food stamps? Are these supposed to be endless programs that keep all people dependent?

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    call it what you will, semantics...call it government aid, call it government assistance, calll it benefits...doesnt change my opinion that they are needed and provide a benefit to society as a whole .
    Then you should define which level of government you are talking about.

    If you want the Federal government to look after people on an individual basis, that's a pretty tough task. But if you want State or county officials to do it, where local people understand the situations better, then that is a possibility.

    But the Feds are gaining more and more power and removing it from the local level. This should be a concern.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Ok, they are needed and that is why we have state and local governments, to provide assistence to the people in their area. Why do you believe that is a Federal Responsibility instead of a state, local, or charity responsibility? How long do you think we should be providing payments to the unemployed? How about food stamps? Are these supposed to be endless programs that keep all people dependent?
    you suffer from the notion that the intentions of foodstamps and unemployment benefits are meant and designed to keep people dependent....i've received unemployment benefits conservative, it was quite a step down from what i was bringing home each week, i was plenty motivated to look for work. if this economy was going balls to the wall and we had more jobs than we knew what to do with, i'd fully support your posistion that it was time to end the extensions, i dont expect them to go on forever, but at the same time, regardless of what someone said that the 'recession' ended last year, and that the dow jones average has been going up, and that the business climate is improving, this hasnt translated into the job creation that is needed to justify, imo, the termination of unemployment extensions at this time. lets see some job creation, lets see that national average come back down to around 5%, then we can talk about cutting the extensions.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then you should define which level of government you are talking about.

    If you want the Federal government to look after people on an individual basis, that's a pretty tough task. But if you want State or county officials to do it, where local people understand the situations better, then that is a possibility.

    But the Feds are gaining more and more power and removing it from the local level. This should be a concern.
    As randel has shown, many people don't understand the role of the State and Federal Govt. getting the two confused. When confronted randel goes silent realizing the error and showing the inability to admit when wrong. I posted the line items that the Federal Income taxes fund and again silence because many also don't have a clue as to what the various taxes actually fund and how they are collected.

    Still many here believe what this Administration tells them and believe that there is a Middle class tax cut on the table when in reality it is just an extension of the Bush tax cuts.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then you should define which level of government you are talking about.

    If you want the Federal government to look after people on an individual basis, that's a pretty tough task. But if you want State or county officials to do it, where local people understand the situations better, then that is a possibility.

    But the Feds are gaining more and more power and removing it from the local level. This should be a concern.
    all branches have a role to play.

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As randel has shown, many people don't understand the role of the State and Federal Govt. getting the two confused. When confronted randel goes silent realizing the error and showing the inability to admit when wrong. I posted the line items that the Federal Income taxes fund and again silence because many also don't have a clue as to what the various taxes actually fund and how they are collected.

    Still many here believe what this Administration tells them and believe that there is a Middle class tax cut on the table when in reality it is just an extension of the Bush tax cuts.
    all that your post is really worth....

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    Re: House Passes Middle-Class Tax Cut as Dems, GOP Try to Reach Compromise

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you suffer from the notion that the intentions of foodstamps and unemployment benefits are meant and designed to keep people dependent....i've received unemployment benefits conservative, it was quite a step down from what i was bringing home each week, i was plenty motivated to look for work. if this economy was going balls to the wall and we had more jobs than we knew what to do with, i'd fully support your posistion that it was time to end the extensions, i dont expect them to go on forever, but at the same time, regardless of what someone said that the 'recession' ended last year, and that the dow jones average has been going up, and that the business climate is improving, this hasnt translated into the job creation that is needed to justify, imo, the termination of unemployment extensions at this time. lets see some job creation, lets see that national average come back down to around 5%, then we can talk about cutting the extensions.
    This Administration is never going to get unemployment back to 5% because of their economic policies so we are going to have unemployment "benefits" for a long, long time and the longer they are in place the less incentive to get a job. Any idea how many of those getting unemployment "benefits" are part of a two income family?

    Anyway, the point stands unemployment payments are supposed to be short term and funded by the states not payments forever. Right now that is two years worth of payments for a program designed for 26 months. You don't seem to have a problem with the extension.

    How does increasing the taxes on the top 2% put 16 million people back to work and off unemployment "benefits?"

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