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Thread: Republicans block child nutrition bill

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no one is saying that is not a problem
    what is your answer for it?
    let's solve that problem
    your kind won't let us, because most of what needs to be done to solve that problem would require forcing ****ty parents to do things they don't want to do or...GASP...restricting someone's "right" to pump out as many kids as fast as they can.


    in the meantime, let's also solve the very real problem that their are hungry children in school who are not getting proper nourishment. why are you so opposed to feeding hungry students born into poverty?
    we already give them welfare and food stamps...when will enough be enough?
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no one is saying that is not a problem
    what is your answer for it?
    let's solve that problem

    in the meantime, let's also solve the very real problem that their are hungry children in school who are not getting proper nourishment. why are you so opposed to feeding hungry students born into poverty?
    Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

    Has anyone interveiwed their parent?

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I have 3 cats. several months ago another stray wandered up and starting hanging around my barn. after about a month, the wife says, why not take it to the vet, get it checked out and give him his shots, since he is going to hang around.

    vet's tests showed it had, through no fault of its own, FIV and feline leukemia. I had to "punish" that cat (put him down) in order to keep from having to punish my other 3 cats later when he infected them.

    As Mr. Spock so eloquently stated, "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few or the one"
    so, to make it abundantly clear, your analogy tells us you would be willing to put down the hungry children born into poverty so that they did not survive to infect the rest of society

    if i got anything wrong about your comparison, please let me know
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why are children alledgedly going to school hungry?

    Has anyone interveiwed their parent?
    maybe because parent sells food stamps for 30 cents on the dollar to buy booze and cigarettes with, instead of spending it to buy FOOD for their kids.


    welfare, food stamps, medicaide, free school lunch, low income housing, low income grants and scholarships. we already give and give and give and give to these people.

    when will enough be enough?
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, to make it abundantly clear, your analogy tells us you would be willing to put down the hungry children born into poverty so that they did not survive to infect the rest of society

    if i got anything wrong about your comparison, please let me know
    no, but I would be more than happy to sterilize their worthless parents so they couldn't bring more and more of the little bastards into being.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This bill isn't about feeding kids.
    really? isn't this a child nutrition bill being discussed?

    It's about the multiple pet payoffs woven within it.
    please explain for those of us unfamiliar with this, exactly how it works

    But when you bring up the "children", it becomes an impentrable force field.
    no, when the matter of childrens' welfare is brought up, those on your side dodge that topic and try to make it something else again
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then give us the answer
    why do you want to punish the victims, the children born into poverty, too often to sorry, irresponsible parents
    Other than the bleating on about 'the children' (and seriosly...why dont you just take the children and house them in state homes and get them out of those horrible existences) have you actually read the legislation? Do you know what it calls for? Do you support creating 17 new governmental agencies...undefined grant prgrams...etc? Do you advocate that the money already being paid to providers of foster kids for their sunstinence and to poor families still be paid to them while disregarding the fact that now you are advocating paying for breakfast lunch and dinner for 20+ million children year round (even during the summer?). So...no consequences...no reduction dollars to foster care providers that no longer have to sustain the children.
    And if this is so all fired important to liberals what the **** is wrong with you??? Why arent you doing this already...on your own? Why havent you created private funds to take care of all poor children? Why must you INSIST that the nany state government do it all? Where is your conviction? Where is your integrity?

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    My understanding is that it serves "the people". That includes everyone equally, including the rich and poor, and so on. There is no distinction beetween various groups.
    the benefits of this great nation have flowed disproportionately toward the rich. real incomes for most have been level while the wealthy have prospered greatly. the playing field is uneven, as can be seen by the results, and the progressive tax would be a mechanism to try to restore a level playing field

    were the data to show that it was happening in the opposite direction, that our wealthy were being harmed while our lower and middle classes were prospering disproportionately, i would then insist the tax system was too progressive, damaging the opportunities of the rich

    Why should you expect that? They can if they chose, as some do, or they can pay the same percentage of their income as everyone else, which still works out to a lot of money without being discriminatory.
    they have benefitted disproportionately, thus they should contribute to the system which makes them prosperous disproportionately

    It is not up to you, or anyone else, to decide what other peoples' "needs" are. That's up to the individual, not to a committee.
    the purpose of government is to protect and defend the public's welfare. why is this any different?

    They already have tax relief.
    but they still pay more than most corporations for instance. the GAO has shown that most corporations pay no tax because of the advantages conferred by the tax system. yet that minimum wage worker pays taxes
    yes, the low wage employees do have tax relief, as do the uber wealthy ... which is why the middle class is being squeezed at both ends. and we see the middle class dwindle as a result

    Because they earned their money, it is their money, and they are entitled to keep what they earned. They should not have to pay a larger proportion of theor income than others. You want to be rich, than get an education and work hard. Don't waste your youth and then later complain about "the rich".
    that's not the way it works. they chose to be here and enjoy the opportunities and bounties of this wonderful nation. they have an obligation to also support it so that it can continue to prosper ... all of it

    Certainly children need to be fed but what alternatives have been looked at? Any?
    i have no problem with alternatives that will accomplish the same end, feeding hungry students
    unfortunately, we do not see the opposition party offering alternatives, we only see them say "no" to hungry kids

    Or do you sincerely believe more government programs will eliminate poverty, such as The Great Society intended?
    you should look at the data which indicates the middle class grew in number and affluence following the war on poverty/great society program ... just as it did after FDR's programs to assist the working people of our nation
    not saying all programs were cost effective, because i happened to manage some of them that were not during my career in public service. but the results speak for themselves. our middle class grew and our poverty levels waned during LBJ (and Lady Byrd's) great society effort

    Which children are hungry?
    ask a teacher. my spouse is a retired teacher and she was easily able to identify those who were undernourished
    Who are their parents?
    sometimes they were unable to properly care for their kids because of circumstances beyond their control. too often, the parent(s) were sorry assholes who had no business being parents in the first place ... but they were likely thinking only of being sperm and egg donors at the time and not considering the potential for unplanned children
    irresponsible as hell ... but why is that the resulting hungry child's fault?

    What have their friends and neighbors done. Are there any volunteer organizations?
    i operate a soup kitchen in an affluent community. we see a LOT of community support but we also have other affluent residents who resent that we are a magnet for the homeless and underprivileged. demand for our meals is about to outstrip our capacity to provide help (fire code occupancy is 70 while we actually seat 118 and feed 200+). and we serve a substantial number of kids - especially in the summer. the point being that there are volunteer organizations but the demand exceeds the supply. and there are also too many assholes who take the attitude that they care for themselves and their help should not be needed to assist the least among us

    Answer these and you might get a better idea than just more government programs. The bureaucracy and the labor unions will like that, but not the long suffering tax payer.
    i think i have answered your questions and my position is unchanged. and yes, i am also an active union official, retired bureaucrat, and remain a taxpayer. i do believe my perspective is a sound, realistic one
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    What has this bill got to do with your income? Fnding for S.3307 would come from the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) under the stimulus bill. It's not like a new tax will be initiated to pay for it. Of course, you'll say the stimulus is wasted, big government spending. Still, it's not a direct assault on your earned income. So, as I've said to others who would rather repeat the same stall rhetoric and talking points, pick up the needle on that old 45 and move it to a new position. Your "get your hands outta my pockets" banter is getting old.

    Excuse me? Could you show me where in the government that the government actually makes any money that didn't originate from taking our tax dollars? You seem to think that what the government takes from me is theirs. It is NOT! That is MY money, the fact that they take it from me doesn't mean that once it leaves my paycheck it is no longer able to be scrutinized by me!

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Republicans block child nutrition bill

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    because if you give free food to them because their parents are worthless, they grow up to be worthless parents who have even more kids
    and your position is that we should allow kids to remain hungry and malnourished so that they will then grow up to be responsible parents?
    could you please point to something which will show us this approach actually generates the outcome you have predicted

    that then must be fed because it's not their fault they have worthless parents.
    so, they were victimized by being born into a bad situation and you propose that we should help them by allowing them to continue to suffer hunger
    i do believe you have posted the most idiotic position i have ever encountered

    it's a vicious cycle and continuing to pump "free" money/food into will do nothing to break it.
    on one point we agree. it is a cycle that deserves to be broken. we learn to parent from our parents and when we have crappy parents we will probably become equally crappy towards our own kids' development. but this is yet another - different problem - than the one we are discussing, which is feeding hungry children - or as the republicans insist, that we should not
    you are conflating the two problems as if they are one
    solve the crappy parent problem and you will have solved the hunger problem
    solve the hunger problem and you will not have solved the crappy parent problem ... but you will have solved the problem of hunger and malnourishment of our kids. that's a problem which deserves to be solved
    so, begin a thread on how to fix the crappy parent problem and i will join you in it. don't be surprised if we agree on many points there
    but as i see it, you want to make the parents' bad decisions the kids' problem. that is not right

    but that is really what this is all about. democrats wanting to increase the number of people dependent on govt...the people who tend to always vote democrat.
    i keep seeing this, usually posited by that turtle dude member, that the democrats help the lower income citizens, not because they need help but because they want their votes
    if that was such an effective approach, one would think the republicans would exploit that cause and effect to their own political advantage
    but they don't, which causes me to dismiss that argument as one which won't hold water
    instead, it would appear that those working class folks vote in their perceived self interest, recognizing that it is the democrats, more than the republicans, who support the programs which benefit them
    in contrast, we see the republicans supporting the programs that are more beneficial to business and industry interests
    the point being, you attribute the democrats approach to assisting the working class as being intended to help the democrats rather than the working class, and as was noted above, that proves to be a lame, unsubstantiated assessment
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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