Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 62

Thread: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

  1. #51
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,082

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    That depends...I haven't heard anything about its close-range capabilities, but I would assume it would demand at least the same stand-off range as an M-203 (something like 50 feet, I think? Or was it yards? Whatever). Then again, it sort of fires a (really large) rifle round, so if they could provide it with slug rounds, or contact-fused shells...
    kill radius for a 40mm (what i'm familiar with) is about 50-100 meters. so let's assume that a 25 mm is about a third of that; and give it 20-30 meters. urban warfare can see you engaging the enemy from 5-10 feet. this is a weapon where you can shoot your enemy and blow yourself up.

    For close range, sure...
    well, as i said, more for breaching; but for very close range (that 5-10 feet) yes. though usually the training will have taken over and you'll be firing hammer-pairs at that point anywho.

    On another tangent, this thing’s electronic systems might make it a good match to a Heli - UAV and/or ground-based combat robot thingy…
    i could see it as part of a vehicle-mounted patrol, similar to how we use the 6-shooters.


    but for this kind of money (24 bucks a round?) i'd still rather have a better caliber.

  2. #52
    Liberal Fascist For Life!


    Redress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:44 PM
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    93,293
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we don't have it; and the shotguns are used more for breaching than they are for direct fire.
    Can you explain the bolded part for me please. Not sure I understand the term.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #53
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,082

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    ceramic (though i suppose you can use slug if your careful, but i wouldn't) rounds that blow hinges off of doors. the trick is that you have to pre-load the shotgun, and we don't have it in the Marines as a attachment. so once a breacher hits the hinges, then the door falls and he is facing bad guys with a weapon holding ceramic rounds, which means that he is now facing bad guys while trying to sling one weapon and bring another to bear. this can be..... embarassing. currently we solve the problem by having the point man buttonhook around the breacher, a move that begs for trouble, tripping, miscommunication, and other things that are similarly...awkward. having the shotty as an attachment allows that Marine to blow the hinges and instantly bring a weapon to bear on whomever is exposed when the door gives.
    Last edited by cpwill; 12-04-10 at 02:26 AM.

  4. #54
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the 203 is 40mm.
    Right.

    I think this was on the Wiki for the 203, where it states under the "Rounds" section:
    M576 Buckshot ("Beehive"). Contains 20 pellets of #4 buckshot. Used for room clearing and point blank firing. Essentially a 12-gauge shotgun shell.
    Now, last time I looked at that wiki page (1-2 days ago), it said "Essentially a 1.2-gauge shotgun shell". I can only assume someone modified it, but since on the Gauge Wiki says a 12-gauge is:
    A 12-gauge shotgun, nominally 18.5 mm (0.73 in), can range from a tight 18.3 mm (0.72 in) to an extreme overbore of 20.3 mm (0.80 in).
    Well...Perhaps there is some information disconnect? Or perhaps I don't understand this gauge bit.

    /shrug
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  5. #55
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    kill radius for a 40mm (what I’m familiar with) is about 50-100 meters. so let's assume that a 25 mm is about a third of that; and give it 20-30 meters. urban warfare can see you engaging the enemy from 5-10 feet. this is a weapon where you can shoot your enemy and blow yourself up.
    Well, if you try to use it point-blank...I would think that the "anti-enfilade" aspects of its airburst capability might dictate the user be located at the rear of any patrol…But come to think of it, currently it wouldn’t seem to be worth much as a direct-fire weapon, and especially not at close range.

    As I said though, if they could offer shotgun-like slug or shot “dumb” rounds, those could be carried in the magazine for more normal purposes, and the airburst rounds could be loaded at need.

    Still, it sounds a bit cumbersome…


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well, as I said, more for breaching; but for very close range (that 5-10 feet) yes. Though usually the training will have taken over and you'll be firing hammer-pairs at that point anywho.
    I assume “hammer-pairs” refers to two rifle rounds fired in quick succession? Something like the “double-tap” I read about in books when (more often) pistols are involved?

    Then again, I would assume a shotgun attachment would lead to training changes – so perhaps…

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i could see it as part of a vehicle-mounted patrol, similar to how we use the 6-shooters.


    But for this kind of money (24 bucks a round?) I’d still rather have a better caliber.
    I’m guessing that to make a rifled (I assume it’s rifled, since they mentioned “measuring spin”?) long-range grenade launcher in a size that was reasonably man-portable required the smaller caliber, seeing as the much larger than rifle-caliber round would demand more powder at launch to reach rifle ranges..ah, what do I know…

    But I was connecting the electronically - controlled airburst capability to the (more than likely) electronic aiming methods involved with a UAV or (WTH do you call a ground-based combat robot, a UGV? :P). Seemed like a potential good fit.
    Last edited by The Mark; 12-04-10 at 05:59 PM.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  6. #56
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 06:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,957
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Original source: AFP



    Beautiful... absolutely beautiful. The timing couldn't be better.

    .
    Not really a game-changer, seeing as how it won't really change the fact that the US-NATO alliance is losing the war in Afghanistan.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  7. #57
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Last Seen
    03-18-13 @ 02:59 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,544

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Not really a game-changer, seeing as how it won't really change the fact that the US-NATO alliance is losing the war in Afghanistan.
    Correction: Obama is losing the war.

    He will face this issue when he seeks reelection in 2012. Can you see Obama's campaign slogan: "Escalation on the road to defeat."

  8. #58
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,082

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Well, if you try to use it point-blank...I would think that the "anti-enfilade" aspects of its airburst capability might dictate the user be located at the rear of any patrol…But come to think of it, currently it wouldn’t seem to be worth much as a direct-fire weapon, and especially not at close range.
    so it couldn't be someone's primary weapon; that's a major issue for a weapon of this weight.

    As I said though, if they could offer shotgun-like slug or shot “dumb” rounds, those could be carried in the magazine for more normal purposes, and the airburst rounds could be loaded at need.

    Still, it sounds a bit cumbersome
    and time-consuming.

    I assume hammer-pairs refers to two rifle rounds fired in quick succession? Something like the double-tap I read about in books when (more often) pistols are involved?
    sort of; double-taps generally refers to two shots fired in quick succession into the same target in order to ensure a hit. there are two kinds of "double taps"; the hammer pair, and the controlled pair. for the controlled pair, you use a different sight picture for each shot; so they are close together, but each is aimed. for the hammer pair, you are using one sight picture for two shots, so only the first is aimed and the second is a derivative of the first dependent on how good you are at controlling rise. generally the controlled pair is for median distance and the hammer pair is for the short distances that you see in MOUT (urban terrain).

    Then again, I would assume a shotgun attachment would lead to training changes; so perhaps
    we already utilize shotguns; i think the necessary adjustment would be minimal.

    But I was connecting the electronically - controlled airburst capability to the (more than likely) electronic aiming methods involved with a UAV or (WTH do you call a ground-based combat robot, a UGV? :P). Seemed like a potential good fit.
    if a UAV weapon doesn't work as advertised then it sucks. back to base for repair. if me and johnnie taliban round a corner and i pull first, fire, and my weapon doesn't do anything, that's a major issue for me.

  9. #59
    Sporadic insanity normal.


    The Mark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    19,736

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    so it couldn't be someone's primary weapon; that's a major issue for a weapon of this weight.
    Indeed. This weapon seemingly would be better used from long range, as a supporting (similar in some ways to a sniper covering you?) weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and time-consuming.
    Well, that depends...If you had different mags loaded with the different types of rounds...But still...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    sort of; double-taps generally refers to two shots fired in quick succession into the same target in order to ensure a hit. there are two kinds of "double taps"; the hammer pair, and the controlled pair. for the controlled pair, you use a different sight picture for each shot; so they are close together, but each is aimed. for the hammer pair, you are using one sight picture for two shots, so only the first is aimed and the second is a derivative of the first dependent on how good you are at controlling rise. generally the controlled pair is for median distance and the hammer pair is for the short distances that you see in MOUT (urban terrain).
    Interesting.

    Thanks for the explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we already utilize shotguns; I think the necessary adjustment would be minimal.
    I was thinking more specifically of the building entry tactics you mentioned, but that would be minimal, I agree...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    if a UAV weapon doesn't work as advertised then it sucks. back to base for repair. if me and johnnie taliban round a corner and I pull first, fire, and my weapon doesn't do anything, that's a major issue for me.
    Quite true...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #60
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 06:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,957
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo View Post
    Correction: Obama is losing the war.

    He will face this issue when he seeks reelection in 2012. Can you see Obama's campaign slogan: "Escalation on the road to defeat."
    Obama is fighting in Afghanistan?

    This is news to me
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •