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Thread: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
    Sorry, I'm somewhat unempressed. It's a nice, expensive toy. It is not a game changer, or a war winner. I'd have settled for an infantry rifle that wouldn't jam as much and is much more lethal than the one we have now --
    Agree entirely.
    That and cpwill's assessment that you may be taking away one of a Squad's machine guns for something that could stop because of battery power worries me. The whole point of the assessment that our boys are outgunned is that AK47's and old Soviet sniper weapons use a heavier round which needs a bigger cartridge to fire it meaning that it goes further and carries a bigger impact when it hits.

    I loved the old 7.62 FN FAL, never tried any newer 5.56 weapon and frankly wouldn't want to somewhere like Afghanistan. Personally I feel we'd be better off with all the squad carrying more powerful weapons than having one team member have something like this. Just hope the UK dept of defense is too cash strapped to want any - nice though the concept looks.

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    I know very little about actual warfare, but I'd guess given three engagement types it's only really useful in one.

    Guerrilla Fighting - not a game changer
    You get surprised/ambushed, once they do their thing, they retreat. Being able to pierce cover is relatively useless here.

    Urban Fighting - probably not much of a game changer. aren't going to be using an airburst weapon indoors, and hard to justify in an urban outdoor setting as well.

    Other engagements - may be a game changer in cases where the traditional tactics of:
    Suppressive fire
    Flank their cover at risk to your mobile squad, takes time, can be countered, etc.

    Is replaced by:
    Suppressive fire
    XM25 does the flanking/killing with one squad-mate at long range, quickly, while remaining near support.

    And Deuce, I agree, there is absolutely no reason they can't institute a replay feature on this thing.
    Last edited by Mach; 12-03-10 at 03:16 PM.

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Possibly replace one of the M-16/203’s with this weapon?
    now you have a soldier/Marine who can't defend himself; this thing is not a short-range direct fire weapon.

    If they could cut it down in overall size, possibly a reduced capability version, in place of the 203... Perhaps the M-16/XJ-25 (or whatever) grenade launcher attachment?
    then again it would be an issue of weight but a multi-shot 203-esque weapon would be interesting. frankly i think the USMC needs to invest in underslung shotgun attachments; those would be much more useful for our riflemen.

    It sounds like it could be useful, in the right situation - the problems are, as you say, it's weight/size basically displacing a more conventional weapon...
    yup; and then it becomes a question of what-does-this-give-us-that-overweighs-what-it-costs-us.

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Agree entirely.
    That and cpwill's assessment that you may be taking away one of a Squad's machine guns for something that could stop because of battery power worries me. The whole point of the assessment that our boys are outgunned is that AK47's and old Soviet sniper weapons use a heavier round which needs a bigger cartridge to fire it meaning that it goes further and carries a bigger impact when it hits.

    I loved the old 7.62 FN FAL, never tried any newer 5.56 weapon and frankly wouldn't want to somewhere like Afghanistan. Personally I feel we'd be better off with all the squad carrying more powerful weapons than having one team member have something like this. Just hope the UK dept of defense is too cash strapped to want any - nice though the concept looks.
    bingo. LONG before i want this weapon, i want to switch to a 6.8 caliber

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    then again it would be an issue of weight but a multi-shot 203-esque weapon would be interesting. frankly i think the USMC needs to invest in underslung shotgun attachments; those would be much more useful for our riflemen.
    It was my understanding that one of the rounds firable with the 203 was a buckshot round. Is this not accurate?
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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It was my understanding that one of the rounds firable with the 203 was a buckshot round. Is this not accurate?
    I think I read that on the Wiki about the 203 - equivalent to a 1.2 gauge shotgun?

    Eh.
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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    now you have a soldier/Marine who can't defend himself; this thing is not a short-range direct fire weapon.
    That depends...I haven't heard anything about its close-range capabilities, but I would assume it would demand at least the same stand-off range as an M-203 (something like 50 feet, I think? Or was it yards? Whatever). Then again, it sort of fires a (really large) rifle round, so if they could provide it with slug rounds, or contact-fused shells...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Then again it would be an issue of weight but a multi-shot 203-esque weapon would be interesting. frankly I think the USMC needs to invest in underslung shotgun attachments; those would be much more useful for our riflemen.
    For close range, sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yup; and then it becomes a question of what-does-this-give-us-that-overweighs-what-it-costs-us.
    Yeah…

    Like I said, depends on the situation.

    On another tangent, this thing’s electronic systems might make it a good match to a Heli - UAV and/or ground-based combat robot thingy…
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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    I know very little about actual warfare, but I'd guess given three engagement types it's only really useful in one.

    Guerrilla Fighting - not a game changer
    You get surprised/ambushed, once they do their thing, they retreat. Being able to pierce cover is relatively useless here.

    Urban Fighting - probably not much of a game changer. aren't going to be using an airburst weapon indoors, and hard to justify in an urban outdoor setting as well.

    Other engagements - may be a game changer in cases where the traditional tactics of:
    Suppressive fire
    Flank their cover at risk to your mobile squad, takes time, can be countered, etc.

    Is replaced by:
    Suppressive fire
    XM25 does the flanking/killing with one squad-mate at long range, quickly, while remaining near support.

    And Deuce, I agree, there is absolutely no reason they can't institute a replay feature on this thing.
    I think the term "airburst" has you confused. You can fire this parallel to the ground. In fact, in urban settings it is awesome for being able to fire into a window and then detonate.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It was my understanding that one of the rounds firable with the 203 was a buckshot round. Is this not accurate?
    we don't have it; and the shotguns are used more for breaching than they are for direct fire.

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    Re: US deploys 'game-changer' weapon to Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I think I read that on the Wiki about the 203 - equivalent to a 1.2 gauge shotgun?

    Eh.
    the 203 is 40mm.

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