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Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

Your Star said:
No, being given the same rights, and opportunities under the law is not forcing you to accept me as normal. No matter how much you want to pretend that it is.
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What rights or military benefits were denied by DADT?
 
ptif219 said:
Rules are broken that is gays got kicked out they had to tell
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They may have been seen at the mall holding hands with some one of the same sex(that's a tell according to the rules).

They may have been drunk and let slip they had a boyfriend/girlfriend of the same sex.

They may have quietly gotten married in one of the states that allows it.

They may have had some one look over their shoulder at emails to their partner.
 
ptif219 said:
They want to say sexual orientation is a civil rights issue I say it is not. Gay is not normal and has cosequences you know that from the beginning they are trying to change that and be accepted as normal. They have not been denied marriage or military service
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Normal is so subjective that trying to base laws on someone's definition of normal is never wise. And yes, LGBT Americans are being denied marriage, and military service.
 
roguenuke said:
Some heterosexuals feel they have to tell about their love life too. Both should be handled the same way. If someone is offended, then they should be told to stop. If they don't stop, they should be brought up on charges of sexual harassment. The rules already exist to handle this now.
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Rules mean nothing look how many got discharged because they could not folloe DADT
 
ptif219 said:
Rules mean nothing look how many got discharged because they could not folloe DADT
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Are you aware that many straits used DADT as an easy way to get out of their enlistment contract? Not happy with your enlistment, go to your CO, say "I am gay" and get an honorable if you have at least 6 months, else a general.
 
Redress said:
No, that is asking to be treated the same. No one says you have to like them, only that the law is the same for every one.
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believe what you want, they want to be seen and accepted as normal
 
ptif219 said:
believe what you want, they want to be seen and accepted as normal
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They would like that, yes. It is not something they can force, nor are they trying.
 
Your Star said:
If you truly don't care, then why do you want to force LGBT Americans to hide it? And trust me, LGBT people are just as boring as straight people, and are just as likely to flaunt their sexuality as straight people.
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Probably more so because they have been denied. Hearing about gay sex acts will disgust many
 
Redress said:
Those who actively flaunt it and are in your face over their sexuality will not have long or successful careers in the military. They will also most likely be rare.
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Time will tell
 
ptif219 said:
Probably more so because they have been denied. Hearing about gay sex acts will disgust many
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Allowing LGBT soldiers to serve openly will not force anyone to hear about gay sex acts.
 
roguenuke said:
Unlike marrying someone of the opposite sex, it is against military rules to marry or attempt to marry someone of the same sex. That is wrong. Since I am allowed, and even encouraged, to marry the guy I love, then a gay guy should most certainly be allowed to marry a guy he loves. And, eventually, after DOMA finally goes down, they should get the same benefits that I now enjoy as a wife of a sailor and formerly as having a husband while I was on active duty.
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Gays can marry legally with a license in few places so you argument means nothin. So you are waiting for Obama to do what he said he would? |207|


get The Smilies @ https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/14455
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
There is a constitutional right to serve? I thought it was decided not. I don't think this is applicable here.
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Not the same thing is it. If they serve, they have a right to be treated the same.
 
ptif219 said:
believe what you want, they want to be seen and accepted as normal
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Seeing as how homosexuals as a group are entirely normal, rational, and autonomous human beings, only ignorance and stupidity would keep anyone from recognizing them as normal.
 
ptif219 said:
What benefits?
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Your kidding us right?

Right to benefits while married:
employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
veteran's disability
Supplemental Security Income
disability payments for federal employees
medicaid
property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax[3]
Joint and family-related rights:
joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
domestic violence intervention
access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
Court notice of probate proceedings
Domestic violence protection orders
Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
Funeral and bereavement leave
Joint adoption and foster care
Joint tax filing
Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
Legal status with stepchildren
Making spousal medical decisions
Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
Right of survivorship of custodial trust
Right to change surname upon marriage
Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
Right to inheritance of property
Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)
For those divorced or widowed, the right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:
Social Security pension
veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
survivor benefits for federal employees
survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
$100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts
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Redress said:
Not the same thing is it. If they serve, they have a right to be treated the same.
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Equal protection, once they are in? I see your point and agree. That said, congress I thought decided, that service was not a constitutional right and therefore can deny entry based on any of a number of factors.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Equal protection, once they are in? I see your point and agree. That said, congress I thought decided, that service was not a constitutional right and therefore can deny entry based on any of a number of factors.
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Correct. That is not the situation now, as gays are allowed to serve, but only under unequal protection.
 
Redress said:
Part of being in the military is having a built in support group. When some one goes through something like that, they have people to talk to and friends to share with who are close. Unless you are gay of course, in which case you can't mention it...
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Must be new we did not have that in the 70's
 
Redress said:
They may have been seen at the mall holding hands with some one of the same sex(that's a tell according to the rules).

They may have been drunk and let slip they had a boyfriend/girlfriend of the same sex.

They may have quietly gotten married in one of the states that allows it.

They may have had some one look over their shoulder at emails to their partner.
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Nice spin I doubt that was the main reason after all there were thousands

Don't Ask, Don't Tell - How Many Gay Soldiers Have Been Discharged Under Don't Ask, Don't Tell
 
Your Star said:
Normal is so subjective that trying to base laws on someone's definition of normal is never wise. And yes, LGBT Americans are being denied marriage, and military service.
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Churches will marry gays and no they were not denied military service they had to obey the rules like everyone else. We had a woman discharged when I was in for prostitution
 
Redress said:
Are you aware that many straits used DADT as an easy way to get out of their enlistment contract? Not happy with your enlistment, go to your CO, say "I am gay" and get an honorable if you have at least 6 months, else a general.
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You have proof and what percentage do that
 
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