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Thread: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    if you are a guy and another guy is bothering you and you ask/tell him to stop and he doesn't....don't cry to daddy. MAKE him stop.

    as I have always told my Joes, solve the problem at the lowest level.
    And when you try and make him stop and he kicks the **** out of you, what then? Sorry, but getting in fights over juvenile **** is retarded.
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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Men don't run to the CO because a fellow man hit on them in the shower and continues to do it. Go ahead and ask me why.
    I knew a guy who turned in a shipyard chick for kissing him.

    I call bull that a guy wouldn't turn in another guy who was hitting on him after saying he wasn't interested. Some might not, and decide to take care of it on their own. Those guys deserve punishment then right alongside the guy that couldn't take no for an answer.
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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    If they were to hit on you I would expect you to report it. Just like I would expect a woman to report a man hitting on them.
    What about the trust issues it causes in combat conditions

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Couldn't just say no? Are do you suggest men can't do what women do regularly?
    You miss the point of the trust factor in combat. I take it you know nothing of military life

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    What about the trust issues it causes in combat conditions
    What trust issues would being gay cause they weren't just plain ignorance?

    An openly gay guy who does their job and acts professionally should be shown the same amount of trust that a straight guy who acts the same way gets. It's really not that hard.

    And, if a gay guy is constantly hitting on someone who has turned them down, then that guy needs to get punished and very possibly transferred. I can support transfers due to actions. Even changing the guy's job and/or possible discharge depending on how severe the incident was.

    Every individual soldier should be judge on their own actions, not the actions of another person who has some identifying characteristic with that person. For instance, if you have a guy who is caught in women's barracks, stealing panties or worse, those who know of the incident shouldn't start automatically be mistrusting to other people who are the same race, in the same unit/job, or from the same state/city as that guy is. That is discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    What about the trust issues it causes in combat conditions
    I have served two combat tours in Iraq, 1st tour we had a couple of dudes everyone suspected was gay, never had any "trust" issues with them on any of our patrols. 2nd tour we had at least one suspected gay guy and an entire squads worth of lesbian MPs (5 of 6 females in one platoon were carpet munchers). I went out on many missions with a lesbian gunner and gay driver, with a lesbian medic in the trail vehicle. never had any worries about them not being willing or able to do their job if the **** hit the fan.


    this is a non-issue
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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I cannot speak for all bases, only for my experiences. I never past boot camp showered in an open bay type shower. Even on ship we had stalls with curtains. Gays did serve back then, and many of them somewhat openly. I knew of 2 gays in my command when I served, neither went out of their way to hide it, while never actually confirming it. Nobody cared much. Showering was never an issue. It's still not an issue. College kids shower with openly flamboyant gays in communal showers still in dorms. They manage it without any trouble. So do athletes.

    There is a total of zero evidence that allowing gays to serve openly would "tear apart our military". Absolutely none. In fact, based on the DoD review and the evidence from other services that have allowed gays to serve openly, there is a mountain of evidence that it will not tear apart our military. To suggest it will is pure emotional rhetoric.
    Until you have been on a Army Post you really cannot say **** about our latrines because you dont know. Have you been to Ft Bragg? How about Ft Benning Harmony Church? Or Sand Hill? How about Caserma Ederle Italy? Or 3rd Ranger Batt? Bad Tolz Germany PCT? You been to everyone of these Army Posts? Because if you had you would realize what an idiotic statement you just made. All these Army Posts have open showers. Now some Army Posts have private rooms and private latrines but the majority of combat MOS barracks I have been lived in have open showers.

    College kids are not highly trained soldiers that are taught to kill with their hands. Tolerance for gays in combat MOS is at a low if toleranced at all. Zero evidence yet you have never served in a combat MOS bwecause if you had you would have to call yourself a liar.

    Emotional rhetoric? How the hell do you know? You never been where the majority of combat troops live because you have never been one of us. Your running your mouth about **** you have never experienced and have no clue about. I dont care about "other" services because they are not combat troops. And in my 20 years of military service I have seen first hand where openly gay troops are threatened, beaten and belittled by the majority of the troops esp black and hispanics. You dont have years of experience to draw from and I doubt you ever had to counsel or Art 15 a troop for admitting their homosexual lifestyle or the troops that abused another because of advances made unwantedly.

    In closing you dont know **** and have proved it time and time again in this thread.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I have served two combat tours in Iraq, 1st tour we had a couple of dudes everyone suspected was gay, never had any "trust" issues with them on any of our patrols. 2nd tour we had at least one suspected gay guy and an entire squads worth of lesbian MPs (5 of 6 females in one platoon were carpet munchers). I went out on many missions with a lesbian gunner and gay driver, with a lesbian medic in the trail vehicle. never had any worries about them not being willing or able to do their job if the **** hit the fan.


    this is a non-issue
    But you have to admit gays are not trusted by the majority of the troops. Do gays serve any different than straights? Not in my opinion. Hell I shared a NCO billets with one that would go to the local gay bars on the weekends. He was a hell of a soldier and could hang with any of us. But the poor guy had to put up with countless slurs and name calling by the rest of the platoon. Hell even our SFC called him Sgt Fancy Pants.
    Last edited by Heavy Duty; 12-01-10 at 04:29 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    What about the trust issues it causes in combat conditions
    It's weird how this is beginning to mirror allowing women to serve. If this is the only complaint, then DADT can be repealed and gays who choose to come out can be moved to non combat positions. This really isn't an argument against repeal of DADT.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    Until you have been on a Army Post you really cannot say **** about our latrines because you dont know. Have you been to Ft Bragg? How about Ft Benning Harmony Church? Or Sand Hill? How about Caserma Ederle Italy? Or 3rd Ranger Batt? Bad Tolz Germany PCT? You been to everyone of these Army Posts? Because if you had you would realize what an idiotic statement you just made. All these Army Posts have open showers. Now some Army Posts have private rooms and private latrines but the majority of combat MOS barracks I have been lived in have open showers.

    College kids are not highly trained soldiers that are taught to kill with their hands. Tolerance for gays in combat MOS is at a low if toleranced at all. Zero evidence yet you have never served in a combat MOS bwecause if you had you would have to call yourself a liar.

    Emotional rhetoric? How the hell do you know? You never been where the majority of combat troops live because you have never been one of us. Your running your mouth about **** you have never experienced and have no clue about. I dont care about "other" services because they are not combat troops. And in my 20 years of military service I have seen first hand where openly gay troops are threatened, beaten and belittled by the majority of the troops esp black and hispanics. You dont have years of experience to draw from and I doubt you ever had to counsel or Art 15 a troop for admitting their homosexual lifestyle or the troops that abused another because of advances made unwantedly.

    In closing you dont know **** and have proved it time and time again in this thread.
    I've been to Fort Bragg when my brother was stationed there. He was an E-3 and shared a barracks room with one other guy and I believed it was a suite, so they would have shared the head with two other guys. There was one shower, so then they would still be showering alone.

    And I was in my husband's barracks room several times at Kaneohe Bay Marine Corps base. He shared his room and head with his roommate only, and was also an E-3 at the time.

    This is all consistant with what I have seen everywhere I've been in the Navy as well. On the ship, and even on the barge, we had separate shower stalls. The only time I had to shower in openbay showers was during bootcamp, and during that time, your one and only concern should be getting as clean as you can in the 2-3 minutes you have to do so.

    Now, both my husband and brother confirm that there were either barely separate shower stalls or open bay showers while in combat zones, but neither were bothered that there might be gay guys staring at them if they happened to have to get undressed in front of them. The gay guys are there, in both Marine and Army combat units now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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