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Thread: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The thing is, this is really a nonissue. In point of fact, most in the military have showered with gays already, it's not going to be something new. I doubt very much that most barracks have open bay showers...hell, we had shower stalls onboard ship. It's a mindless emotional reaction that will be quickly overcome. It's no big deal.
    Did they shower with gays knowing? So you are going to tell me that the many 1970-1990 constructed barracks have shower stalls? Not in any of the latrines that I have seen. NCO have private rooms, everyone else in the barracks shower together in a usually 8 head shower. No stalls, no curtains and no privacy.

    And yes it is a big deal. We once have a kid a few other soldiers thought was gay. They caught him alone one night and beat the **** out of him. You going to tell that kid and the many others that have experienced the same type of abuse its no "BIG DEAL"? Its only a mindless reaction and the men whom beat you will slowly come to accept you? Get real.
    Last edited by Heavy Duty; 12-01-10 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    Did they shower with gays knowing? So you are going to tell me that the many 1970-1990 constructed barracks have shower stalls? Not in any of the latrines that I have seen. NCO have private rooms, everyone else in the barracks shower together in a usually 8 head shower. No stalls, no curtains and no privacy.

    And yes it is a big deal. We once have a kid a few other soldiers thought was gay. They caught him alone one night and beat the **** out of him. You going to tell that kid and the many others that have experienced the same type of abuse its no "BIG DEAL"? Its only a mindless reaction and the men whom beat you will slowly come to accept you? Get real.
    Knowing or not, they did shower with them. And anyone who beats up anyone is at fault. You don't blame the victim. You crack down on those who abuse. Period.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    And yes it is a big deal. We once have a kid a few other soldiers thought was gay. They caught him alone one night and beat the **** out of him. You going to tell that kid and the many others that have experienced the same type of abuse its no "BIG DEAL"? Its only a mindless reaction and the men whom beat you will slowly come to accept you? Get real.
    Those soldiers who beat their gay comrade you mentioned, guess what? They are criminals.

    We don't determine our policy based on what will best placate criminals. It doesn't matter what some bigoted soldier may or may not accept. They are professional soldiers, they can accept their orders or they shouldn't sign up anyway.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    Did they shower with gays knowing? So you are going to tell me that the many 1970-1990 constructed barracks have shower stalls? Not in any of the latrines that I have seen. NCO have private rooms, everyone else in the barracks shower together in a usually 8 head shower. No stalls, no curtains and no privacy.

    And yes it is a big deal. We once have a kid a few other soldiers thought was gay. They caught him alone one night and beat the **** out of him. You going to tell that kid and the many others that have experienced the same type of abuse its no "BIG DEAL"? Its only a mindless reaction and the men whom beat you will slowly come to accept you? Get real.
    Yes I am going to tell you that. I served from 87-93, and every barracks I stayed in after boot camp had shower stalls. Navy barracks had shower stalls or showers for each room, air force barracks had showers in each room, and marine barracks had shower stalls...never stayed at an army base, but I suspect the same would be true there.

    If some one catches a gay soldier and beats the hell out of them, there are already regulations in place to handle that, and as long as they are enforced, things like that will end, and fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes I am going to tell you that. I served from 87-93, and every barracks I stayed in after boot camp had shower stalls. Navy barracks had shower stalls or showers for each room, air force barracks had showers in each room, and marine barracks had shower stalls...never stayed at an army base, but I suspect the same would be true there.

    If some one catches a gay soldier and beats the hell out of them, there are already regulations in place to handle that, and as long as they are enforced, things like that will end, and fast.
    Benning didn't in '86, Dineyland at Knox did in '88 and I don't remember much about the showers at Yokota Air Base for the 2 weeks I was there in 1990. But at the time, if someone was gay they didn't say or show a peep back then. If openly gay members are going to be openly gay, there will be problems... I don't believe the Army has progressed or the Marines have progressed to tolerance of that level. Sure, some individuals will be accepted but I have to think the majority will not. This could tear apart our military. Frankly, I don't want to know and back then, I probably REALLY wouldn't want to know.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Yes I am going to tell you that. I served from 87-93, and every barracks I stayed in after boot camp had shower stalls.
    You remember every shower room you were ever in?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    I wonder what this will do to recruiting?

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Benning didn't in '86, Dineyland at Knox did in '88 and I don't remember much about the showers at Yokota Air Base for the 2 weeks I was there in 1990. But at the time, if someone was gay they didn't say or show a peep back then. If openly gay members are going to be openly gay, there will be problems... I don't believe the Army has progressed or the Marines have progressed to tolerance of that level. Sure, some individuals will be accepted but I have to think the majority will not. This could tear apart our military. Frankly, I don't want to know and back then, I probably REALLY wouldn't want to know.
    I cannot speak for all bases, only for my experiences. I never past boot camp showered in an open bay type shower. Even on ship we had stalls with curtains. Gays did serve back then, and many of them somewhat openly. I knew of 2 gays in my command when I served, neither went out of their way to hide it, while never actually confirming it. Nobody cared much. Showering was never an issue. It's still not an issue. College kids shower with openly flamboyant gays in communal showers still in dorms. They manage it without any trouble. So do athletes.

    There is a total of zero evidence that allowing gays to serve openly would "tear apart our military". Absolutely none. In fact, based on the DoD review and the evidence from other services that have allowed gays to serve openly, there is a mountain of evidence that it will not tear apart our military. To suggest it will is pure emotional rhetoric.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You remember every shower room you were ever in?
    Open bay showers would stick to mind. I hated them in boot camp.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Pentagon: Letting openly gay troops serve won't hurt military

    I was chaptered out as gay. The whole platoon knew. I still showered openly with them. Only 1-2 of 40 had a problem.

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