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South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

Nope, not mixed with Black. Black America is fine. But it is a different version of America with it's own unique culture. That culture isn't mine. America is many different countries. Some of those countries don't get along.

Since Black culture is not mine, there is no reason for me to care about it.

Actually, I don't think much of this generation of white people. They are pathetically weak. Their fate in America is to become livestock for others.

While all individuals may be equal, all cultures are not. Some cultures elevate the ideals of education, family cohesion, etc. That's why most East Asian cultures are superior to White American culture and Black American culture.

Once I was all about American unity. I can remember cheering Floyd Patterson when he fought Ingmar Johanssen. My father was for the white European because he was white. I was for the Black American because he was American. I believed in unity.

Unity was a part of the past. It will never return. So each group has it's right to it's own identity.

WTF??? You are mixing up culture with race and nationalism.

No wonder your posts are making my head hurt.

This also does not back up your statement in any way and is a completely different argument.
 
WTF??? You are mixing up culture with race and nationalism.

No wonder your posts are making my head hurt.

This also does not back up your statement in any way and is a completely different argument.

America is divided by race, culture and identity. There is no single American community. There are more Americas than you can shake a stick at. America will only become more divided with the passage of time. I think it's called Balkanization.
 
They were here hundreds to thousands of years before anyone else. What a senseless argument on your part.

It's not senseless, it's stating that there were no native species of human on the American continents. Your comment was "Every white person in this country came from someplace else. Just like everyone else except the Native Americans." I was just correcting it, because the Native Americans also came from someplace else.

It's not under "PC" attack, it is under he did not discover America attack. Columbus and his three ships found what is now the Bahamas. Since he believed he was approaching India, he called the Islands he found "The Indies" and their inhabitants Indians. He then found Cuba and what (thanks to his error) are now called the West Indies. In later voyages he reached the mouth of the Orinoco River, in what is now called northern Venezuela, but still didn't realise that he was on the edge of a new continent.

Of course, people had already been living in the Americas for hundreds, if not thousands of years before Columbus and his successors went there, so "discover" isn't exactly the road. However, they were certainly the first Europeans in that part of the world, unless you count the Nordic settlers who tried and failed to establish a colony in Greenland in the Middle Ages.

Yeah, we all know the story. It doesn't take away from the accomplishment of the time. He certainly did think he reached India because at the time there was no knowledge of other continents. He found it though, and in such a way that others could get there as well and start colonization of a new continent. There is worth in the accomplishment. And it is under PC attack, that's plain and measured reality.

So they found the black lost tribe of the Irish? :roll:

What's wrong with the Irish? BTW, they have traditionally been well repressed throughout history. But no, I of course was not saying that and anyone of any amount of intellect would know that to be true. St. Patrick's Day was mostly a religious day (still is in Ireland). Currently in America, it's a drinking holiday. That's it. There's nothing "white" about it. In fact, you have to wear green.

Wrong...

Washington's Birthday is the official name designated to what many of us know as President's Day. During the month of February the birthday of two of our greatest President's takes place. Both George Washington who was born on Feb. 22nd and Abraham Lincoln born on Feb. 12th. - Presidents Day Federal Holiday

Wait! The Thirteen colonies who were all white Europeans fought the English for Independence somehow is other than a "white" holiday? :lol:

You need to get back on topic and stop attacking my posts just for some stupid vendetta, and making really lame arguments. :lol:

It was initially Washington's Birthday. It was later changed to President's Day and the date moved to be in between Washington and Lincoln to celebrate both (which President helped free the slaves again....). Now it's a day for sales and picnics. That's pretty much it. 4th of July is a day of cookouts, fireworks, and PBR. Nothing white about any of that. Nothing that you listed is a "white" holiday. None of the festivities revolve around saying "Hey...you know who's great? White people!". Or "White history" or "White power" or any of that. Quit being such a racist about this crap. All it does is make things more divisive. Those holidays are for everyone and do not exalt one race over another.
 
They aren't, they are completely ignoring it. That is the problem. It is nothing to celebrate. You obviously are confused as I never said what you are spouting.

Yes you did. But you've just answered your own question. How does one celebrate the secession without acknowledging the slavery....you ignore the slavery obviously. Jesus, this shouldn't be a tough topic. They aren't talking about slavery, but rather the ability of the States to leave the Republic. The cause for having done so before is inconsequential, what counts is the ability to do it.

No you can't.

Already have given my rebuttals to this. No need to go through it again.

Yeah, but it's complete crap because obviously you can because these people did.

I don't know, it reminds me of that episode of Aqua Team Hunger Force with the broodwich sandwich which cannot be taken apart. Shake eats the sandwich, but does not go to the other world because he picked off the sundried tomatoes. The voice says something like "The broodwich sandwich cannot be taken apart" to which Shake responds "Well obviously it can because that's what I did". You can sit there all day spouting that one cannot celebrate the secession of the south without including slavery, but reality says differently.
 
This reminds me of every time the tea party gets together and liberals scream "Look, it's just a bunch of white people!"

How many black and Hispanic people attend political rallies unless they're specifically black or Hispanic events?
 
It's not senseless, it's stating that there were no native species of human on the American continents. Your comment was "Every white person in this country came from someplace else. Just like everyone else except the Native Americans." I was just correcting it, because the Native Americans also came from someplace else.

That is again a stupid argument. They where here first, so they claim native status as they had been here a long time. It's like trying to say because humans come originally from Africa, no native people exist.

Yeah, we all know the story. It doesn't take away from the accomplishment of the time. He certainly did think he reached India because at the time there was no knowledge of other continents. He found it though, and in such a way that others could get there as well and start colonization of a new continent. There is worth in the accomplishment. And it is under PC attack, that's plain and measured reality.

His accomplishment is not worthy of an American holiday, period.

What's wrong with the Irish? BTW, they have traditionally been well repressed throughout history. But no, I of course was not saying that and anyone of any amount of intellect would know that to be true. St. Patrick's Day was mostly a religious day (still is in Ireland). Currently in America, it's a drinking holiday. That's it. There's nothing "white" about it. In fact, you have to wear green.

Dude, that has nothing to do with my argument, anything I have remotely said and is at it's base just stupid.

It was initially Washington's Birthday. It was later changed to President's Day and the date moved to be in between Washington and Lincoln to celebrate both (which President helped free the slaves again....). Now it's a day for sales and picnics. That's pretty much it. 4th of July is a day of cookouts, fireworks, and PBR. Nothing white about any of that. Nothing that you listed is a "white" holiday. None of the festivities revolve around saying "Hey...you know who's great? White people!". Or "White history" or "White power" or any of that. Quit being such a racist about this crap. All it does is make things more divisive. Those holidays are for everyone and do not exalt one race over another.

This has nothing to do with why the holiday is celebrated it has to do with what it represents.

As for the "racist" comment. Kiss my ass.
 
Yes you did. But you've just answered your own question. How does one celebrate the secession without acknowledging the slavery....you ignore the slavery obviously. Jesus, this shouldn't be a tough topic. They aren't talking about slavery, but rather the ability of the States to leave the Republic. The cause for having done so before is inconsequential, what counts is the ability to do it.

I said it has racist undertones, I never said anything about it being a celebration about slavery in any way shape or form.

Get a clue.

Yeah, but it's complete crap because obviously you can because these people did.

Not really, it is a big issue. So no.

I don't know, it reminds me of that episode of Aqua Team Hunger Force with the broodwich sandwich which cannot be taken apart. Shake eats the sandwich, but does not go to the other world because he picked off the sundried tomatoes. The voice says something like "The broodwich sandwich cannot be taken apart" to which Shake responds "Well obviously it can because that's what I did". You can sit there all day spouting that one cannot celebrate the secession of the south without including slavery, but reality says differently.

Yes reality says different, because we know what it really stands for. ;)
 
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That is again a stupid argument. They where here first, so they claim native status as they had been here a long time. It's like trying to say because humans come originally from Africa, no native people exist.

The human race did originate from Africa. Again, what I said is technically true. But since this is a time scale thing, how does it work? If we're here longer than the Indians were here for, does that make us native? Or is it the first group to get there claims it for all time?

His accomplishment is not worthy of an American holiday, period.

Why not? It's how we all got here. Well I mean, if not him someone else would eventually have done it; but the case was that Columbus did it. And because of it, we were able to come here, and ultimately make our own nation free from Europe. So why is it not worthy of an American holiday?

Dude, that has nothing to do with my argument, anything I have remotely said and is at it's base just stupid.

It has everything to do with your argument. You want to keep calling these white people holidays, but they're clearly not. St. Patrick's Day is not. Nor is President's Day, or Columbus Day, or the 4th of July. None of these are "white people" holidays. None of it innately runs around our race. It's all based on a performance, an action that was noteworthy. Race is inconsequential to any of these holidays.


This has nothing to do with why the holiday is celebrated it has to do with what it represents.

Yes it does. You want to claim that these are somehow white people holidays because the origins happened to be European. It's stupid. It's like saying Christmas is a "white" holiday. None of the holidays you listed have anything to do with race, even though you want to make that claim. None of it revolves around being white.

As for the "racist" comment. Kiss my ass.

I don't appease racists.
 
I said it has racist undertones, I never said anything about it being a celebration about slavery in any way shape or form.

Get a clue.

I know you want to claim racist undertones; but those racist undertones don't actually exist. What these people want to raise awareness of is the ability of the States to secede from the Union. Nothing more, nothing less. The South did it before. And they did so because slavery was an important issue at the time. But the reason for them wanted to secede and for others in the present or future to do so are not going to be the same. Thus it is not the cause of the secession which is important. It is the ability of the States to secede which is important.

Not really, it is a big issue. So no.

This is only a big issue because you want to make it a big issue. Because you want to jump up and down and yell racism and slavery and this and that. You're the one applying all the racist meaning. Obviously these people have been able to make a secession party which celebrates the ability of the States to secede from the Republic without referring to slavery. You're just seemingly pissed off because they didn't mention slavery.

Yes reality says different, because we know what it really stands for. ;)

Secession does not stand for racism. No matter how much you want to make it so. None of your arguments logically uphold your conclusion and your continual efforts to bring race into this is nothing short of a deflection. These people have very clearly celebrated the State's ability to secede without referring to racism. So your ultimate question of how it is done has been answered by actions in the real world. That's all there is to it. Measured reality is measured reality.
 
I don't appease racists.

Since you have resorted to adhoms I guess we are done.

Racist
–noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.


Well it looks like you are wrong again. :mrgreen:
 
Since you have resorted to adhoms I guess we are done.

We were done the moment you couldn't make a logical argument to defend your claims. BTW, I do think that from your rhetoric here, #3 fits you.
 
We were done the moment you couldn't make a logical argument to defend your claims. BTW, I do think that from your rhetoric here, #3 fits you.

That would be a lie.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Please point out where anyplace on this forum and this thread I have shown intolerance because of someones race?

That also pretty much sums up the sorry excuse that you call an argument to defend celebrating a dark stain on our history.
 
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I thought from the thread title that they weren't allowing slaves to celebrate the civil war. :mrgreen:

I was thinking it was one those civil war reenactments and there were not having any slave reenactments.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Ikari, BD, and any one else, calm it down or you will be shown your way out of this thread.
 
Lincoln wanted to preserve the union, he knew if he said slavery had to go it was over. He was trying to avoid the split. It was about primarily slavery from the perspective of the Southern states.

You are not going to stop this celebration, and never will. You might as well get use to it. Either that or come out against gay pride marches.
 
Well it would make you a separatist and a bigot, racist? maybe? I don't know how you feel about blacks and other minority's to make that kind of call, but if you would keep the "Ozarks" for whites only? Yea it sounds racist.

Well, I see it didn't take long. I was born in the boston mountains of the arkansas ozarks. I choose to live here after "experiencing" much of the rest of the us and a little bit of europe on uncle sam's dime.

I did not indicate the ozarks should be a white only homeland, but you managed to accuse me of that. I said nothing derogatory about any race or ethnicity. The small college town I inhabit is quite diverse, but you managed to assume the worst here as well. I'm hardly surprised. Ignorance of rural whites, from any part of flyover america, seems endemic among upper class white liberals. Just why is that?

The fact that my culture is distinct makes no difference to you in any respect. This is the point others were making on this thread. It's ok to have an ethnicity, a culture.......but not if you are white. If you are white you are expected to adopt the social mores of the upper class whites that predominate in the northeast and west coast.

I reject that concept. Quite frankly, I reject you. You have no right to simply demand I fit your preconceived notions of southerners. You have no right to simply demand I follow your way of life. You have no right to simply damand.............anything of me, or mine. ;)

source

Ozark also refers to a region of people with a distinct culture, architecture,[42][44] and dialect shared by the people who live on the plateau. Early settlers in Missouri were American pioneers who came West from the Southern Appalachians at the beginning of the 19th century,[28][45] followed in the 1840s and 50s by Irish and German immigrants. Much of the Ozark population is of German, English and Scots-Irish descent, often including some Native American ancestry, and the Ozark families from which the regional culture derived[45] tend to have lived in the area since the 19th century.[46]


Wild strawberries
Persimmon flowerEarly settlers relied on hunting, fishing and trapping, as well as foraging to supplement their diets and incomes.[28] Today hunting and fishing for recreation are common activities and an important part of the tourist industry. Foraging for mushrooms, especially morels and ginseng, is common, and is financially supported by established buyers in the area. Other forages include poke, watercress, persimmons and pawpaw; wild berries such as blackberry, raspberry, Red Mulberry, Black Cherry, wild strawberry and dewberry; and wild nuts such as black walnut and even acorns.[47] Edible native legumes, wild grasses and wildflowers are plentiful, and beekeeping is common.[48]

Ozark culture is widely referenced in print and broadcast media. Where the Red Fern Grows, the Shepherd of the Hills[43] and As a Friend[49] are books set in the Ozarks. The 1999 film Ride with the Devil, based on the book Woe to Live On,[50] depicts warfare in Southwest Missouri during the Civil War.[51] Winter's Bone,[52] a novel by Daniel Woodrell (author of Woe to Live On) reflects on contemporary methamphetamine culture and its impact on families on the plateau. Released as a feature film in 2010, Winter's Bone was the recipient of the Grand Jury Prize at the Sundance Film Festival and other awards. Several early and influential country music television and radio programs originated from Springfield in the 1950s and 60s, including ABC-TV's Ozark Jubilee and The Slim Wilson Show on KYTV. The Clampett clan of The Beverly Hillbillies TV show are a stereotypical depiction of Ozark people. Ozark musicians include Porter Wagoner and old-time fiddler Bob Holt.[53] Examples of commercial interpretations of traditional Ozark culture include the two major family theme parks in the region, Silver Dollar City and the now defunct Dogpatch U.S.A., and the resort entertainment complex in Branson. Ozark Folkways in Winslow, Arkansas and Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas interpret regional culture through musical performance and exhibitions of pioneer skills and crafts.

Traditional Ozark culture includes stories and tunes passed orally between generations through community music parties and other informal gatherings.[54] Many of these tunes and tales can be traced to the British Isles[55] and to German folklore. Moreover, historian Vance Randolph attributes the formation of much Ozark lore to individual families when "backwoods parents begin by telling outrageous whoppers to their children and end by half believing the wildest of these tales themselves."[45] Randolph collected Ozark folklore and lyrics in volumes such as the national bestseller Pissing in the Snow and Other Ozark Folktales (University of Illinois Press, 1976), Ozark Folksongs (University of Missouri Press, 1980), a four-volume anthology of regional songs and ballads collected in the 1920s and 30s,[55] and Ozark Magic and Folklore (Courier Dover Publications, 1964).[45] Evidenced by Randolph's extensive field work, many Ozark anecdotes from the oral tradition are often bawdy, full of wild embellishments on everyday themes.[56][57] In 1941-42, commissioned by Alan Lomax of the Archive of Folk Culture, Randolph returned to the Ozarks with a portable recording machine from the Library of Congress and captured over 800 songs, ballads and instrumentals.[58] Selected from among these several hundred recordings, 35 tracks were released on Various Artists: Ozark Folksongs (Rounder Records) in 2001.[55]


Boston Mountains in the Arkansas Ozarks.Square dances were an important social avenue throughout the Ozarks into the 20th century.[59][60][61] Square dances sprang up wherever people concentrated around mills and timber camps, springs, fords, and in towns small and large. Geographically isolated communities saw their own local dance tunes and variations develop.[59][60] Of all the traditional musicians in the Ozarks, the fiddler holds a distinct place in both the community and folklore.[59][60] Community fiddlers revered for carrying local tunes; regionally, traveling fiddlers brought new tunes and entertainment, even while many viewed their arrival as a threat to morality.[53][59][60][61] In 2007, Gordon McCann, a chronicler of Ozarks folklife and fiddle music for over four decades, donated a collection of audio recordings, fieldnotes and photographs to Missouri State University in Springfield.[62] The collection includes more than 3,000 hours of fiddle music and interviews recorded at jam sessions, music parties, concerts and dances in the Ozarks. Selected audio recordings along with biographical sketches, photographs and tune histories were published in the 2008 book/CD set Ozarks Fiddle Music: 308 Tunes Featuring 30 Legendary Fiddlers,[63] with selections from 50 other Ozark fiddlers.

From 1973 to 1983, the Bittersweet project, which began as an English class at Lebanon, Missouri High School, collected 476 taped and transcribed interviews, published 482 stories and took over 50,000 photographs documenting traditional Ozark culture.[64]

Population influx since the 1950s,[27][29] coupled with geographically lying in both the Midwest and Upper South, proximity to the Mississippi embayment, the Osage and Northern Plains, contributes to changing cultural values in the Ozarks. Theme parks and theatres seen to reflect regional values have little in common with traditional Ozark culture. Community tradition bearers remain active, in decreasing numbers, far afield of commercial offers.[65][66]

[edit] Religion
Ozark religion, like that of Appalachia, was predominantly Baptist and Methodist during periods of early settlement; it tends to be conservative, or individualistic, with Anglicans, Assemblies of God, Baptists including Southern Baptists, Church of Christ and other Protestant Pentecostal denominations present, as well as Catholics.[67][68] Religious organizations headquartered in the Ozarks include the Assemblies of God and the Baptist Bible Fellowship International in Springfield, and the Pentecostal Church of God in Joplin. The 1960s and '70s saw back-to-the-land farms and communes established in rural counties.................



No one says you have to. On the same note don't be surprised if people call a spade a spade either.

I'm little surprised by anything "you people" say these days. ;)
 
Nope, not mixed with Black. Black America is fine. But it is a different version of America with it's own unique culture. That culture isn't mine. America is many different countries. Some of those countries don't get along.

Since Black culture is not mine, there is no reason for me to care about it.

Actually, I don't think much of this generation of white people. They are pathetically weak. Their fate in America is to become livestock for others.

While all individuals may be equal, all cultures are not. Some cultures elevate the ideals of education, family cohesion, etc. That's why most East Asian cultures are superior to White American culture and Black American culture.

Once I was all about American unity. I can remember cheering Floyd Patterson when he fought Ingmar Johanssen. My father was for the white European because he was white. I was for the Black American because he was American. I believed in unity.

Unity was a part of the past. It will never return. So each group has it's right to it's own identity.

Speak for yourself. There are a hell of a lot of good young people out there. Get out a little bit more, you'll find them. ;)
 
You are not going to stop this celebration, and never will. You might as well get use to it. Either that or come out against gay pride marches.

This is stupid. No one said anything about stoping it.

Please buy a clue or even better read the thread.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Blackdog is now banned from this thread. Any one else want to see the exit?
 
Well, I see it didn't take long. I was born in the boston mountains of the arkansas ozarks. I choose to live here after "experiencing" much of the rest of the us and a little bit of europe on uncle sam's dime.

Only because you read things into my statements. Get the chip off your shoulder.

I did not indicate the ozarks should be a white only homeland, but you managed to accuse me of that.

A question mark denotes a question, not a statement.

I said nothing derogatory about any race or ethnicity. The small college town I inhabit is quite diverse, but you managed to assume the worst here as well. I'm hardly surprised. Ignorance of rural whites, from any part of flyover america, seems endemic among upper class white liberals. Just why is that?

You tell me?

I don't know how you feel about blacks and other minority's to make that kind of call, but if you would keep the "Ozarks" for whites only?

The fact that my culture is distinct makes no difference to you in any respect. This is the point others were making on this thread. It's ok to have an ethnicity, a culture.......but not if you are white. If you are white you are expected to adopt the social mores of the upper class whites that predominate in the northeast and west coast.

I reject that concept. Quite frankly, I reject you. You have no right to simply demand I fit your preconceived notions of southerners. You have no right to simply demand I follow your way of life. You have no right to simply damand.............anything of me, or mine. ;)[/FONT][/SIZE]
source

Ummm you asked me a question and I answered it clearly and honestly. I have not "demanded" anything of you.

Like I said loose the chip, and don't make knee jerk reactions and you mite just understand what I said. :roll:

I'm little surprised by anything "you people" say these days. ;)

:doh :roll:
 
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Speak for yourself. There are a hell of a lot of good young people out there. Get out a little bit more, you'll find them. ;)

This generation of white people is poorly educated becasue they attended public schools. Public schools can't fire bad teachers. So the kids will fall into the hands of some people during their education who aren't dedicated to them. Same thing happens to black kids, except it's even worse. Black kids get the very worst teachers more often than not, and are simply warehoused.

My kids are grown. They aren't white. They have parents who made sure that they were never educated by incompetent teachers.
 
This is the point others were making on this thread. It's ok to have an ethnicity, a culture.......but not if you are white.

Really. Explain the widespread celebration of St. Patrick's Day, Columbus Day, etc. I'm descended from a long, long line of Missouri hillbillies, and I've never felt a need to apologize for that.

You've created a scenario that doesn't exist, and then attacked it. That's a fallacious method of argumentation (strawman).

Feel free to prove that variations of white culture aren't regularly celebrated in the U.S. Has your community banned St. Patrick's day?
 
So you're confusing the two issues then. One one hand you say that those celebrating the secession are not celebrating slavery. On the other you're saying that they can't celebrate the secession without including the reason for the original secession. Which is absolutely incorrect. You obviously can celebrate or honor or promote the idea that States can secede from the Republic if they feel the Republic no longer serves their needs without bringing up that the last time it was done was done primarily for slavery concerns. It is, in fact, very simple to separate the two out.

Exactly why should a hostile act by declared enemies of the United States be "celebrated" in this modern era?

Next...the residents of Oklahoma City "celebrate" the anniversary of the Murrow bombing. :roll:
 
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Exactly why should a hostile act by declared enemies of the United States be "celebrated" in this modern era?

Next...the residents of Oklahoma City "celebrate" the anniversary of the Murrow bombing. :roll:

Catz,

The United States is a means to an end. Not an end in itself. There is no American culture that all residents of America accept as legitimate. No one has any obligation to anyone else unless she or he recognizes that other person as a member of her or his own version of America.

Everyone now has the right to demand her or his culture and to exclude other versions of American culture.

It's called Multiculturalism. It killed unity. Unity will never return.
 
This generation of white people is poorly educated becasue they attended public schools. Public schools can't fire bad teachers. So the kids will fall into the hands of some people during their education who aren't dedicated to them. Same thing happens to black kids, except it's even worse. Black kids get the very worst teachers more often than not, and are simply warehoused.

My kids are grown. They aren't white. They have parents who made sure that they were never educated by incompetent teachers.

Nice, as luck would have it......I'm a teacher. I've got a newsflash for ya'......kids are getting educated right here, right now irrespective of their color. The single biggest factor limiting educational success isn't the school, their teachers, their class sizes, or the monies spent on education, it's their socio-economic status/culture/sub-culture.

Not all socio-economic groups/cultures/sub-cultures value education. The rich and middle classes tend to raise their children to value education and encourage them to excell in it. The poor and working classes are a more mixed picture. Poor whites/blacks/hispanics tend to put less value on education as a way to succeed than middle and upper classes do.

Throw in broken homes, drug and alcohol abuse and you have problems no matter what the culture/socio-economic status of the parents.

So, it doesn't matter what race your kids are, if you valued education as a means to success in this country and made sure they did their homework and tried as hard as they could, they should succeed in education and do better economically than their compatriots. If you are; using drugs, divorced, didn't raise them with the idea they can succeed in life thru education.............. ;)
 
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