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Thread: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Actually the same could be said for your argument. Either way it is not so much for me about outward racism. The whole thing (while I am certain most Southerners don't care one way or the other) is tainted by the racist undercurrent.
    No the thing couldn't be said the same for my arguement because it is not my arguement. What I said before is what one of the people setting up one of the events said. Since it comes from the person that is helping set things up I would have to say that his arguement about what the celebration is about trumps both what you and I may "think" that it is about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The thing that keeps racism alive is racists. I mean between Azatlan, Black Panthers, White Supremacists etc. Do you really want to say suspecting racism is the main reason? Not really.

    No one will deny it is part of the reason. It is doing nothing but widening the racial divide. It is not how ever the main cause or even a large one.
    Sorry I did not mean to imply that it was the main reason. I meant that it was one of the reasons. I also believe that statistics that mention race (white, black, hispanic etc etc) helps keep racism alive if that gives you an idea of where I am coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't "seem" to think anything. Nothing I have typed would lead anyone to think what you said about my statements.

    Slavery was one of the biggest issues, but not the only one. No one has said otherwise. It was however one of the major reasons and should include the abolitionist movement.

    #1 Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
    #2 States versus federal rights.
    #3 The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
    #4 Growth of the Abolition Movement.
    #5 The election of Lincoln.

    The fact is, it is nothing to be proud of or celebrate.
    It depends on what part of it you are celebrating. These people are celebrating your #2 reason. They are not celebrating any of the others. Celebrating part of something despite the rest of what may be attached to what you are celebrating happens all the time. For example George Washington Day. We celebrate the man but not everything about him. For example we do not celebrate him because he was a slave owner (which he was) we celebrate him because he was our first President and among the first to sign the Constitution of the USA. So just because something bad is a part of something good doesn't mean that they can't be mutually exclusive.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    No more like color you stupid if you believe the civil war was fought solely because of slavery.
    It was. If you read my previous post, my proof was the Declarations of Secession, made by the various Southern states. Every one of those declarations gave slavery, and the attempt by the North to end the practice, as the sole reason for secession. You can call this a battle over states rights if you want to, but the real reason for the Civil War (slavery) is part of the historical record, and in the writing of those who seceeded. There is no way to dumb this down, or rewrite history. It is all in the historical record, in black and white.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No the thing couldn't be said the same for my arguement because it is not my arguement. What I said before is what one of the people setting up one of the events said. Since it comes from the person that is helping set things up I would have to say that his arguement about what the celebration is about trumps both what you and I may "think" that it is about.
    And people lie, so what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Sorry I did not mean to imply that it was the main reason. I meant that it was one of the reasons. I also believe that statistics that mention race (white, black, hispanic etc etc) helps keep racism alive if that gives you an idea of where I am coming from.
    I understand and agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It depends on what part of it you are celebrating. These people are celebrating your #2 reason. They are not celebrating any of the others. Celebrating part of something despite the rest of what may be attached to what you are celebrating happens all the time. For example George Washington Day. We celebrate the man but not everything about him. For example we do not celebrate him because he was a slave owner (which he was) we celebrate him because he was our first President and among the first to sign the Constitution of the USA. So just because something bad is a part of something good doesn't mean that they can't be mutually exclusive.
    It is a chain of events inseparable and connected forever in infamy. I mean it's OK if they want to celebrate the reason or reasons for a lost war with no redeeming value, no value that I can see anyway.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Duty View Post
    No more like color you stupid if you believe the civil war was fought solely because of slavery.
    Tell us, what else was it about? Economic determination? The South's economy was overly reliant on slavery. Different culture? The South's culture was dependent on slavery. The main cause of declaration for Southern secession was slavery as proven by every single declaration issued, the words of the Confederate President and the writings of pro-slavery confederates at the time.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-01-10 at 07:06 PM.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I think they are celebrating (or at least they say) the actual secession of the 11 states. Like it is more about states rights.

    Like I said how can you celebrate secession during the civil war with know mention of one of it's main causes.
    It's probably more of a commemoration than a celebration.

    Leave it to the lamestream media to protray southerners as anything, other than white, pro-Confederate, pro-slavery and racist. Gotta keep that image alive. It's good political ammo in future elections and, it's politically correct.
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's probably more of a commemoration than a celebration.

    Leave it to the lamestream media to protray southerners as anything, other than white, pro-Confederate, pro-slavery and racist. Gotta keep that image alive. It's good political ammo in future elections and, it's politically correct.
    That's some lame spin.

    "We are having drinks and a dance to commemorate fighting for slavery!"
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Tell us, what else was it about? Economic determination? The South's economy was overly reliant on slavery. Different culture? The South's culture was dependent on slavery. The main cause of declaration for Southern secession was slavery as proven by every single declaration issued, the words of the Confederate President and the writings of pro-slavery confederates at the time.
    It was fought for states rights. The right of a state to determine it's own destiny.

    It was about property rights. "If, today, the government can take our slaves, where does it end?". The reason that most people can't see that, is that the extent of their education about the period, are the articles of seccesion. Replace, "slavery", with, "2nd Amendment". Would that mean that the Civil War was fought purely so people could own guns, or was it fought to protect all constitutional rights?

    Slavery's days were numbered. Mechinization would have ended slavery in another 10 years and everyone knew it and it didn't take a war, billions of dollars in destroyed property and a half million lives to make that happen.

    The, "it's all about slavery", crowd probably set the American black community back by 50 years, or more with the anomosity that was created in the Reconstruction South.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    That's some lame spin.

    "We are having drinks and a dance to commemorate fighting for slavery!"
    That's because you think it's all about slavery.

    Less than 1% of all Southerners and even fewer Confederate soldiers owned slaves.

    But, hey, let's don't let historical facts get in our way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's because you think it's all about slavery.

    Less than 1% of all Southerners and even fewer Confederate soldiers owned slaves.

    But, hey, let's don't let historical facts get in our way.
    I never said it was all about slavery. Tariffs were a big part of it too. If you weren't so quick to point out the the "1%" who were also the wealthy and politically influential that got the slave issue into the various State's letters of Secession, you would have pointed out this much more significant "historical fact".
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    Re: South celebrates Civil War, largely without slaves

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It was fought for states rights. The right of a state to determine it's own destiny.

    It was about property rights. "If, today, the government can take our slaves, where does it end?". The reason that most people can't see that, is that the extent of their education about the period, are the articles of seccesion. Replace, "slavery", with, "2nd Amendment". Would that mean that the Civil War was fought purely so people could own guns, or was it fought to protect all constitutional rights?
    "Property rights"???

    You are killing me. People aren't property. It's sad that you would defend anyone at any time who thought otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Slavery's days were numbered. Mechinization would have ended slavery in another 10 years and everyone knew it and it didn't take a war, billions of dollars in destroyed property and a half million lives to make that happen.

    The, "it's all about slavery", crowd probably set the American black community back by 50 years, or more with the anomosity that was created in the Reconstruction South.
    The Reconstruction South? Oh yeah, I looked into that before. That's when Republicans elected many black people. Then they stopped. Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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